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  1. #1
    Player
    Burningskull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,352
    Character
    Markov Dracul
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    I hope the Devs that did the work in their spare time got paid for it... or will get paid for it. If not... God Bless Them.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    PangTong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    247
    Character
    Reginald Thorne
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    I acknowledge the reasoning behind the choice of what races to add as truthful and legitimate, but I still don't accept it as the right decision. If this truly is the last opportunity they had to add new races then they really just painted themselves into a corner by doing two half-races. Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.

    As for the decision to not add a new healer: when is the right time to balance healers if not at the start of a new expansion? If they added a new tank because they were having difficulty balancing tanks with just three jobs, what makes them think they'll fare any better with three healers instead of four? I don't buy this reasoning at all, it all just sounds like an excuse to me. They said similar things about why Samurai wasn't a tank but now here we are 2 years later and suddenly a new tank is apparently necessary. I also think it's silly that they count ranged, melee and caster DPS as distinct roles when not only do the players not do that, even the game itself doesn't do that in the majority of its matchmaking. For everything except the Feast, you do not queue as "ranged DPS", it's just "DPS". I suspect the real reason that there is no new healer is because they decided every expansion needs at least 1 new DPS job because a large majority of players only play DPS and nothing else.

    It might seem a little unfair to criticize a decision based on genuine resource and workflow constraints, but at the same time the result is what it is. XIV is a product on the market competing with similar products, you shouldn't overlook flaws just because the creators are struggling to overcome them. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. I think people made their preferences abundantly clear, and if the developers actively make decisions contrary to those expectations then they shouldn't be excused.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player
    Burningskull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,352
    Character
    Markov Dracul
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by PangTong View Post
    I acknowledge the reasoning behind the choice of what races to add as truthful and legitimate, but I still don't accept it as the right decision. If this truly is the last opportunity they had to add new races then they really just painted themselves into a corner by doing two half-races. Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.

    As for the decision to not add a new healer: when is the right time to balance healers if not at the start of a new expansion? If they added a new tank because they were having difficulty balancing tanks with just three jobs, what makes them think they'll fare any better with three healers instead of four? I don't buy this reasoning at all, it all just sounds like an excuse to me. They said similar things about why Samurai wasn't a tank but now here we are 2 years later and suddenly a new tank is apparently necessary. I also think it's silly that they count ranged, melee and caster DPS as distinct roles when not only do the players not do that, even the game itself doesn't do that in the majority of its matchmaking. For everything except the Feast, you do not queue as "ranged DPS", it's just "DPS". I suspect the real reason that there is no new healer is because they decided every expansion needs at least 1 new DPS job because a large majority of players only play DPS and nothing else.

    It might seem a little unfair to criticize a decision based on genuine resource and workflow constraints, but at the same time the result is what it is. XIV is a product on the market competing with similar products, you shouldn't overlook flaws just because the creators are struggling to overcome them. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. I think people made their preferences abundantly clear, and if the developers actively make decisions contrary to those expectations then they shouldn't be excused.
    When matchmaking through the DF the game does differentiate between melee, ranged, and caster. But if it can't put different dps with different dps then to cut down on queue times it'll stick two of the same together. Otherwise you'd have ranged and caster waiting forever since I "think" those are more played than melee.
    (6)

  4. #4
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,037
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Burningskull View Post
    When matchmaking through the DF the game does differentiate between melee, ranged, and caster. But if it can't put different dps with different dps then to cut down on queue times it'll stick two of the same together. Otherwise you'd have ranged and caster waiting forever since I "think" those are more played than melee.
    Yep, I usually have faster queues as melee than my ranged/caster friends.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    reivaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,193
    Character
    Jellicle Jayde
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by PangTong View Post
    I acknowledge the reasoning behind the choice of what races to add as truthful and legitimate, but I still don't accept it as the right decision. If this truly is the last opportunity they had to add new races then they really just painted themselves into a corner by doing two half-races. Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.
    Did you happen to read the live letter?

    Cause all this is clearly answered in there.
    (7)

  6. #6
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,846
    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by reivaxe View Post
    Did you happen to read the live letter?

    Cause all this is clearly answered in there.
    I think you are missing his point. Try thinking of it this way, lets say you go out to eat, you're a very picky eater by the way, but you go out and only have a choice between a chicken or pork dish. You are told or its hinted to you by advertisements that you can get either fried or grilled/roasted. Perfect you like both chicken and pork, but think grilled chicken is too dry and fried pork too oily, so you can just choose from the other two options. However, once you get to the restaurant you find out that they only fry their pork and grill their chicken, which baffles you because how hard could it be to do, the other method. You get told "reasons" that admittedly make sense, but ultimately if this restaurant doesn't have any options for you you're probably going to find someplace else to eat. Granted this is a bit of an oversimplification but does present a similar expectation and dilemma. The two meat options are nice, but it's better to have the one option cooked two ways over the two options cooked only one way. It's this wierd dynamic where by limiting the options, you're creating a wider variety of options.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    reivaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,193
    Character
    Jellicle Jayde
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Eloah View Post
    I think you are missing his point. Try thinking of it this way, lets say you go out to eat, you're a very picky eater by the way, but you go out and only have a choice between a chicken or pork dish. You are told or its hinted to you by advertisements that you can get either fried or grilled/roasted. Perfect you like both chicken and pork, but think grilled chicken is too dry and fried pork too oily, so you can just choose from the other two options. However, once you get to the restaurant you find out that they only fry their pork and grill their chicken, which baffles you because how hard could it be to do, the other method. You get told "reasons" that admittedly make sense, but ultimately if this restaurant doesn't have any options for you you're probably going to find someplace else to eat. Granted this is a bit of an oversimplification but does present a similar expectation and dilemma. The two meat options are nice, but it's better to have the one option cooked two ways over the two options cooked only one way. It's this wierd dynamic where by limiting the options, you're creating a wider variety of options.
    Your example is terrible :/

    Let me try to move it around ...

    You're already at a joint, you enjoy it! It's got beer and whine and food and games and TV screens to watch the game on and even a karaoke stage! It's basically David Busters or Chucky Cheese. You get your favorite dish all the time (Potatoes I guess) and enjoy all the things you can do there. Now, they offer you 2 NEW dishes ... one's Shrimp and the other some kinda bird. You never came here before for shrimp because it was never offered and you don't eat that kinda bird ... you also enjoy your favorite dish and other activities here or else you would have stopped coming by now. They never promised you a shrimp dish before and when they showed the shrimp in an ad it was only shown cooked 1 way (Fried breaded shrimp). But now you're thinking of going someplace else because they don't make shrimp burgers?

    Yeah, this is nonsense.
    (8)

  8. #8
    Player

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    585
    Quote Originally Posted by reivaxe View Post
    Your example is terrible :/

    Let me try to move it around ...

    You're already at a joint, you enjoy it! It's got beer and whine and food and games and TV screens to watch the game on and even a karaoke stage! It's basically David Busters or Chucky Cheese. You get your favorite dish all the time (Potatoes I guess) and enjoy all the things you can do there. Now, they offer you 2 NEW dishes ... one's Shrimp and the other some kinda bird. You never came here before for shrimp because it was never offered and you don't eat that kinda bird ... you also enjoy your favorite dish and other activities here or else you would have stopped coming by now. They never promised you a shrimp dish before and when they showed the shrimp in an ad it was only shown cooked 1 way (Fried breaded shrimp). But now you're thinking of going someplace else because they don't make shrimp burgers?

    Yeah, this is nonsense.

    Dav and busters? Do you live in Chicago too? And I always thoguht it was dav and busters... the more you learn....

    MASSIVE EDIT. Ok.. I thought Dave and busters was only a chicago thing. MY BAD. Crap thats 2 mess ups in one day. TT.TT I'mma go cry in a corner now.
    (1)
    Last edited by Insertcoins; 05-11-2019 at 06:46 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,846
    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by reivaxe View Post
    Your example is terrible :/

    Let me try to move it around ...

    You're already at a joint, you enjoy it! It's got beer and whine and food and games and TV screens to watch the game on and even a karaoke stage! It's basically David Busters or Chucky Cheese. You get your favorite dish all the time (Potatoes I guess) and enjoy all the things you can do there. Now, they offer you 2 NEW dishes ... one's Shrimp and the other some kinda bird. You never came here before for shrimp because it was never offered and you don't eat that kinda bird ... you also enjoy your favorite dish and other activities here or else you would have stopped coming by now. They never promised you a shrimp dish before and when they showed the shrimp in an ad it was only shown cooked 1 way (Fried breaded shrimp). But now you're thinking of going someplace else because they don't make shrimp burgers?

    Yeah, this is nonsense.
    You missed the point entirely.
    (1)
    I like helping people with their Job ideas, it's fun to help them visuallize and create the job they'd like to play most. Plus I make my own too, I'll post them eventually.

  10. #10
    Player
    Clover_Blake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,137
    Character
    Clover Blake
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by PangTong View Post
    Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.
    Did you expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the other race if just one was released? "WE DIDN'T NEED MORE CUTE RACES, WE NEEDED BEASTS! SE WASTED THE CHANCE TO MAKE THIS GAME DIFFERENT!11!", or "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY AREN'T GIVING US VIERA BECAUSE OF A BEAST RACE THAT NO ONE WILL PLAY!!111one!!"

    I know the story because there was a huge and annoying drama back when Au Ra was released. Please do not think that this wouldn't be the same. People are going to complain no matter what the outcome is, so SE's choice wasn't bad or good. It just wasn't your personal favourite.

    My personal favourite would be Viera only and no beasts races, but I have enough of a brain to understand that my tastes aren't the very core of what makes the world go round. Many people wanted Viera, many people wanted beasts -or at least did create a HUGE drama back in the day because of it-, SE had resources to make just a single race -male and female-, and made the choice that would include both races. As much as I wanted male Vieras, this sounds reasonable to me.
    (9)
    http://clovermemories.tumblr.com/

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