is there any hope for monk?

[grinkdaboy]

monk feels like the mch of melee dps. that isn't to say that monk is a bad job at all, and it's one of my favorite jobs (in terms of class fantasy, at least) but it just doesn't feel as great to play. it feels a lot like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viejY6UZ5Bk

[Burningskull]

A guy on youtube called DrakGamestein compared the evolution of MNK abilities to DRG abilities in a video. He said that DRG's evolution was much more natural. Get skills to improve your jumps that improve your lance skills. Where as MNK doesn't really do that. Chakra doesn't amplify your base attacks it just gives you a powerful move to use. Tornado Kick removes the whole mechanic MNK is based around, and Riddle of Fire lows you down when the job is built around going fast. I agree with him.

[Kalise]

Hopefully.

MNK is a mess right now. It's full of clunk, annoying mechanics and counter-intuitive design.

Like...

* Needing to go into Fists of Wind to access Riddle of Wind in order to get a Shoulder Tackle that generates a Greased Lightning. Why?

* Riddle of Fire reducing attack speed. Why?

* Tornado Kick eating Greased Lightning (Which is both Attack Speed and Damage). Why?

* Excruciatingly short durations on things like Greased Lightning, Twin Snakes and Dragon Kick that punish downtime heavily with no way to alleviate that. Why?

* Opo-Opo Stance not being baseline so you can't get the combo bonus on your first strike without using Form Shift. Why?

* Form Shift being a GCD action. Why?

* Riddle of Earth?!?!?

Like, I don't understand where the design was even supposed to go here at all.

Heck, what's up with the fact that in the job quests, you open up your Chakra and become all glowy and powerful... In game you simply get... Another oGCD ability (Provided you crit enough or have downtime where you spam the GCD skill Meditate? Or use Brotherhood while partied with a bunch of Weaponskill users)

[Awful]

Hopefully.

MNK is a mess right now. It's full of clunk, annoying mechanics and counter-intuitive design.

Like...

* Needing to go into Fists of Wind to access Riddle of Wind in order to get a Shoulder Tackle that generates a Greased Lightning. Why?

* Riddle of Fire reducing attack speed. Why?

* Tornado Kick eating Greased Lightning (Which is both Attack Speed and Damage). Why?

* Excruciatingly short durations on things like Greased Lightning, Twin Snakes and Dragon Kick that punish downtime heavily with no way to alleviate that. Why?

* Opo-Opo Stance not being baseline so you can't get the combo bonus on your first strike without using Form Shift. Why?

* Form Shift being a GCD action. Why?

* Riddle of Earth?!?!?

Like, I don't understand where the design was even supposed to go here at all.

Heck, what's up with the fact that in the job quests, you open up your Chakra and become all glowy and powerful... In game you simply get... Another oGCD ability (Provided you crit enough or have downtime where you spam the GCD skill Meditate? Or use Brotherhood while partied with a bunch of Weaponskill users)

Pretty much this it feels jank and not fun to play (least for me), I also feel that the evolution of Monk compared to every other class Monk has barely changed since ARR, sure they have OGCDs and what not but its been the same relative since its conception. The only thing it lost was Touch of Death, Dragoons natural evolution honestly overshadows Monk which is why as a DPS class I barely play it I'd rather play Dragoon or Samurai where they're fun and engaging.

[Japetus]

Have you worked tornado kick into your rotation? It's been a refreshing change, though now the super optimal rotation is pretty strict with weaving and TK recovery. You can tornado kick every time tackle is up outside of riddle of fire and once at the end of riddle.

I dont see a whole lot that's bad. I do chafe a bit at RoF GCD, but it does make things feel more powerful/impactful.

With RoE, form shift, and RoW they've really extended how long a gap you can maintain GL through (or recover quickly).

[Physic]

Hopefully.

MNK is a mess right now. It's full of clunk, annoying mechanics and counter-intuitive design.

Like...

* Needing to go into Fists of Wind to access Riddle of Wind in order to get a Shoulder Tackle that generates a Greased Lightning. Why?

* Riddle of Fire reducing attack speed. Why?

* Tornado Kick eating Greased Lightning (Which is both Attack Speed and Damage). Why?

* Excruciatingly short durations on things like Greased Lightning, Twin Snakes and Dragon Kick that punish downtime heavily with no way to alleviate that. Why?

* Opo-Opo Stance not being baseline so you can't get the combo bonus on your first strike without using Form Shift. Why?

* Form Shift being a GCD action. Why?

* Riddle of Earth?!?!?

Like, I don't understand where the design was even supposed to go here at all.

Heck, what's up with the fact that in the job quests, you open up your Chakra and become all glowy and powerful... In game you simply get... Another oGCD ability (Provided you crit enough or have downtime where you spam the GCD skill Meditate? Or use Brotherhood while partied with a bunch of Weaponskill users)

Mnk isnt about being simple, its supposed to be about combos and controlling your flow

riddles are all about changing the effect of your shoulder tackle depending on your stance

tornado kick uses greased lightning so that the key becomes using it at the right time (when you can get greased lightning back fast)

riddle of fire reduces attack speed, but that doeant effect ogcds, so you can use all your skills between regular hits, its also a straight up dps increase, even if you dont weave in big attacks.

Riddle of earth, is for when you get hate/take dmg, like earth stance.


the low durations, well they kinda suck based on the type of content we are usually in.


As a pug/mnk main since back in the day, i dont want it to become closer to drg. It should be its own thing.

[Physic]

Pretty much this it feels jank and not fun to play (least for me), I also feel that the evolution of Monk compared to every other class Monk has barely changed since ARR, sure they have OGCDs and what not but its been the same relative since its conception. The only thing it lost was Touch of Death, Dragoons natural evolution honestly overshadows Monk which is why as a DPS class I barely play it I'd rather play Dragoon or Samurai where they're fun and engaging.

uhh its very different. before you just maintain 3 stacks, now you try to work in tornado with minimal grease loss, try to line up ocgds and buffs for max riddle of fire dmg, while trying to weave in the chakra attack without losing rotation. Its a lot less simple

[Vanitas]

Really tho how do you screw up punch punch kick?

[van_arn]

ask again next month

[Kalise]

Mnk isnt about being simple, its supposed to be about combos and controlling your flow

MNK is simple. It's just jank af.

About combo's? You mean like literally every melee job in the entire game AND also Machinist?

riddles are all about changing the effect of your shoulder tackle depending on your stance

Except, only Riddle of Wind actually changes your Shoulder Tackle. Riddle of Wind is also the ONLY Shoulder Tackle you use because it's the only one that generates Greased Lightning and thus is the only one that allows you to use Tornado Kick without it being a DPS loss.

Also, no-one uses Riddle of Earth

tornado kick uses greased lightning so that the key becomes using it at the right time (when you can get greased lightning back fast)

But... Why? Why does it need to use Greased Lightning, which means feeling like crap for 3+ GCD's where you attack slower.

Like, it's so niche when Tornado Kick is a DPS gain, because you need to have your buffs up and Demolish up before you TK so that while you're trying to rebuilt your "Do damage" stacks back up you don't need to refresh Demolish or have and oGCD's come up while you're not at full 90% bonus damage with Twin Snakes up.

riddle of fire reduces attack speed, but that doeant effect ogcds, so you can use all your skills between regular hits, its also a straight up dps increase, even if you dont weave in big attacks.

But why does it need to slow attack speed? Why can't it be a pure DPS gain without making you feel like crap because it tosses your AS out the window?

Riddle of earth, is for when you get hate/take dmg, like earth stance.

Yeah, but it's crap. Its "Additional effect" is crap because the inherently short duration of GL and the fact that 99% of the time you want to be in Fists of Fire for the Damage because you shouldn't be taking hate and most sources of damage occur when the boss is targetable.

the low durations, well they kinda suck based on the type of content we are usually in.

They suck everywhere.

As a pug/mnk main since back in the day, i dont want it to become closer to drg. It should be its own thing.

I don't want it to become closer to DRG in any way other than that DRG has very few skills that are mediocre/bad/useless. Literally all of DRG's skills are useful with only Elusive Jump being situationally bad (When it is dangerous to leap backwards)

I would like MNK to be uniquely MNK. However, its current path seems to be one where it is getting a ton of clunk.

Which is ironic, given that Monk's are typically fast and fluid in their fighting style and gameplay.

I like other mDPS.

Samurai is very solid and flows nicely. It feels nice to play, weaving in oGCD's and setting up Iaijutsu.

Ninja is quite fun, it feels faster paced with its high attack speed from Huton as well as its Ninjutsu weaving and Ninki spenders. It's only downside is Mudra lag.

Dragoon is solid and has very nice flow in combat. Though, Blood of the Dragon timer can get annoying at times.

Monk... Is jank and clunk on top of jank and clunk. I don't even understand why other mDPS are made solid and refined, while MNK is left to be all janky with skills that can't be allowed to be simply DPS increases and need to be tied to DPS losses.

Like, Monk has a unique combo system. Yet it is not used it's just the same 123 as everyone else (Except DRG which uses 12345).

It has twin resources but Chakra is only used for 2 skills total, one of which being simply a copy of a Role Action for TP gain... While the other one is also their damage boost that makes their otherwise very low potencies worthwhile and then is consumed for reasons...

It has stances. But one of them is literally "Do more damage" so is the de-facto one. With the only other one that is wanted to be used is only cared about because it turns a bad skill into a useful one then after that one skill is used, it is swapped out for the good stance instead.

It has skills that promote stance usages. But they're all terribly designed so none of them feel very good to use (This, in combination with the poorly implemented stances compounds things)

Its DPS cooldowns also feel underwhelming. Internal Release is still only 30% crit chance increase despite no longer needing to be balanced as a cross-class skill (It is also made even more underwhelming by Bootshine's combo bonus being making it a guaranteed crit). Riddle of Fire has its arbitrary attack speed down. Brotherhood is RNG on how much it will benefit you as well as being designed to only benefit having other physical jobs in your party (This also excludes PLD whom will want to be Requiescat > Holy Spirit spam during burst windows thus nullifying Brotherhood benefit)

In short, Monk has a lot of potential. It has some unique mechanics that can be capitalized on. But instead, SE seem to just force in some jank for no reason.

As someone who often plays Monks in games and mostly plays Monk characters in D&D campaigns... It just feels odd for Monk to come out feeling so jank.