Is Zodiark evil?

[RopeDrink]

Let's be honest, a hefty portion of players won't be shocked at the comment made at the end of the trailer. There is also huge room for this to be Solus blowing smoke. After all, spreading chaos is his thang, and what better way to get some in-fighting or debating going than to have the WoL and co. doubting Hyde (or our connection to her).

Given we are still completely devoid of anything from Big Daddy Shadow himself, we cannot possibly come to any conclusion about whether he/it is evil, much less whether he/they are ancient-primals until we get our teeth into Shadowbringers. All I WILL guess is that there will eventually be some revelation about how it's not so much about one or the other being evil, but more a case of how good/evil one is from the other perspective. At the moment, Ascians consider Hyde evil for reasons, and all we have to go on regarding Zodiark is the hints and comments that he's the big darkness and eats worlds and that's bad... But we can see Light doing the exact same thing, just inversed.

TLDR; wait and see.

[Mansion]

TLDR; wait and see.

This forum basicaly lives on not waiting and not seeing between patches and expansions hahaha.

[Kalise]

It's hard to take the statement of Zody/Hydie being Primals seriously at the moment. One, because, all Ascians are lying scumbags who want to sow disorder in order to further their own plans. Two, Solus is considered pretty sketch compared to other Ascians to boot. Three, there's a lot of strangeness about Zody/Hydie that doesn't sit right if they are simply Primals.

For instance, we've never heard of them being referenced as Primals before. Even back in the days of the Allagans, there hasn't been mentioned anything about the world itself being an Eikon (Which, I'd assume would be a more accurate term for them IF they are indeed Primal-like entities, given that while Garleans have adopted the word Eikon, an Eikon is something slightly different to a Primal)

Hydaelyn seems to exist outside of the world. She's in the Aetherial Sea. She can guide people there and exists in that space. She doesn't appear in any physical form. Unlike actual Primals whom only seem to exist when they have that particular simulacrum summoned - Which has been noted, is not the ACTUAL version of themself, hence the issue with Bahamut when Tiamat tried to summon him.

Hydaelyn and Zodiark aren't sucking up all the Aether from the world. Which you'd expect if the shards are supposedly pieces of them, that all Aether would get gobbled up, due to that being literally the most important thing to note from Primals as that's why they're so dangerous to let live and why Alexander wants to keep out of action since he doesn't want to destroy the world by nomming all the Aether. To say nothing about Hydie being in the Aetherial Sea which is, full of Aether. Yet it's all not nommed and in fact, the opposite is true and Hydie is actually weak because of spending so much effort aiding WoL's.

There doesn't appear to be any tempering going on. Normies are still going around praying to the Twelve, not going around doing the bidding of the Mother/Father crystals. In fact, it's only the ones whom possess the Echo (Which, according to the Ascians themselves, prevents tempering) that are actually involved with Zody/Hydie (Though, we're unsure if Zody is actually capable of granting the Echo himself or not, or if Ascians were given it by Hydie and then for some reason, started trying to ressurect Zody)

Even IF Hydie was a Primal and the WoL's was tempered... Then it wouldn't make sense that they would be able to go off and become Warriors of Darkness. There's no evidence of someone who's tempered by a Primal being able to get re-tempered by ANOTHER Primal. So, both us becoming WoD's in ShB as well as the WoD's we met in HW have no reasonable explaination as far as Tempering goes. Everything has suggested that Tempering is irreversible (Though, I guess we've never actually had anyone try to be re-tempered...)

So yeah... I'll reserve my judgement on the validity of Solus' statement, as is now it seems like it's designed to just be shocking if taken at face value, but with not a whole lot suggesting the accuracy of such a statement.

[LineageRazor]

and others who seem to think that Varis is under Solus control somehow. I've not seen any indication of the latter

The primary reason folks took this stance is Varis's psycho smile toward the end of the scene where he announces his intention to sure the Black Rose. The expression was wildly out-of-character for him - but quite in line for the hammy Solus. Additionally, the fact that that smile came on the tail end of a dialogue regarding Black Rose - something Solus expressed an explicit interest in due to its interactions with Light - was another suspicious indicator...

Even IF Hydie was a Primal and the WoL's was tempered... Then it wouldn't make sense that they would be able to go off and become Warriors of Darkness. There's no evidence of someone who's tempered by a Primal being able to get re-tempered by ANOTHER Primal.

In fact, there's significant evidence that individuals CAN'T be re-tempered. In our first encounter with Ifrit, when he discovers that he cannot temper us, his immediate conclusion is that we've been tempered by someone else.

[PogueX]

I think it's difficult to decipher who is evil or good. This game obviously has a strong influence of "Ying Yang" dualism

What if though we go through all that effort to destroy the light and bring back darkness to the first only to learn that it was a ruse by Solus and the Ascians to destroy another one of Hydaelyn's shards. We as warriors of darkness are trying to bring back balance, and i highly doubt that is what Solus also wants. Therefore he wouldn't be trying to help us by dropping clues if he wasn't playing us in same way

[Alleo]

If the primal theory is true then Zodiark might simply be evil because his summoners wished him to be so. We at least know that the primals we have ingame can change their behaviour depending on who summons them. So maybe the ones that wished for the first primal needed it to save them but afterwards they seems to have split up which then split up the primal too. Seeing how Hydaelyn has not shown any evil intent and sees us as their children, maybe her core aspect was protection of the humans. While those that prayed to Zodiark could have had other intentions, maybe even wanting to use it for power. Of course if that is how he changed, Hydaelyn as the protector of her children would do anything to banish him, with the result of splitting the world and race up.

So he simply could be our enemy because he was summoned like that and we know at least with other primals that this cant be changed.

Of course we have not much information thus both could function completely different to our primals which means that Solus told the truth and lied at the same time. They are something like that but not exactly like known summons thus theoretically could not be dangerous with their existance.

[RopeDrink]

The primary reason folks took this stance is Varis's psycho smile toward the end of the scene where he announces his intention to sure the Black Rose. The expression was wildly out-of-character for him - but quite in line for the hammy Solus.

Right, and I suppose when the WoL was seen shrouded in darkness and given an all-too-intimidating looking aura after defeating Thordan and watching the old codger die on his hands and knees that this could have some completely random implications too, right? No, that doesn't prove anything to me at all. Varis had (previous to the BR scene) delivered crushing rebuttals to the entire Alliance before proposing they all enjoy a nice explosive death to create the one-true-master-race. Smiling at the fact Solus is finally leaving him to his own devices (when it has been implied very heavily that he is absolutely sick to his teeth with the Ascian's pulling the empire strings) really could mean anything. I certainly expect Black Rose to be a nasty wakeup call post ShB, but the scope remains to be seen, as does Varis true intent.

I believe Varis most certainly will betray the Ascians in the name of (his) empire, but whether he legitimately does believe in the rejoining remains to be seen. I'm not convinced just yet, nor do I see one brief moment of an emphasized smile of evil as "Oh, he must be mind-controlled or something".

Could be wrong, but we'll see.

[RopeDrink]

Forgot to mention: Solus mentioned that he and Varis likely will not meet again in his timeline, and the ShB trailer mic-drop took place on the first, so I fail to see how Solus (or even Elidibus) will be engaging in some casual mind-control while they're off meddling in our affairs in a different world... Unless 'timeline' doesn't mean "One of us will be dead by the time this is resolved" but more a case of "I'll go have a cup of tea with your 'other' mirror-version on a different shard"... But that's a stretch way too far.

[LineageRazor]

No, that doesn't prove anything to me at all.

It's only a theory, not "proof" of any kind. It's not even a theory that I, personally, think is very likely. You asked why folks suspect it might be the case, and I answered: Varis seemed out of character in one scene.

Personally, I think the whole rant with the Alliance leaders was a carefully constructed plan of Varis's (real Varis, not possessed Varis) to ensure the alliance fully commits to the conflict - that it was a veiled way of exposing the Ascians' plans while still giving the appearance of going along with them (so the Ascians DON'T take unfortunate measures with him, like possession). If the Alliance held back because they thought they had a chance at a peaceful resolution, it would fail to root the Ascians out of his nation. I don't think he honestly believes in bringing back the precursor humans to fight the Ascians as a united force - he loves Garlemald too much to sacrifice it for such a plan, and there's really no way Garlemald remains intact if the Ascian's get their way.

If the Alliance commits, though, whether or not they actually conquer Garlemald, they stand a decent chance of taking care of the Ascian problem (they have a remarkable track record for defeating, thwarting, and even destroying Ascians), and even in the event of Garlemald's defeat, the nation will likely retain its sovereignty, as Ala Mhigo did after its failed invasion of the Black Shroud. Meanwhile, since he's playing along with the Ascians, they leave him mostly to his own devices, leaving him free to help orchestrate their defeat.

Forgot to mention: Solus mentioned that he and Varis likely will not meet again in his timeline, and the ShB trailer mic-drop took place on the first, so I fail to see how Solus (or even Elidibus) will be engaging in some casual mind-control while they're off meddling in our affairs in a different world...

"You and I will not meet again... BECAUSE I"LL BE INHABITING YOUR BODY FROM NOW ON! BWAHAHAHA!"

:3

Again, though, it's just a theory some folks have, and one of many.