Please fix summoner Physick

[Archwizard]

Lets take a look at Conjurer.

Before level 30 they get Cure, Medica and Raise.

Given that a role shift of Arcanist would probably put a heal on the carbuncles, I don't think Arcanist is ill equipped to heal those demanding low level dungeons.

Alright, let's compare the two.

Before 30, CNJ's only attacks are Stone and Aero. EVERYTHING else in their kit is devoted to healing, crowd control and support.

ACN meanwhile gets a filler, two DoTs and a spreader, an oGCD attack and a pet.

So, you're saying that one heal and an "oops" button is all it takes to qualify as a healer for 30 levels? Bearing in mind that is all RDM has at 70, by that logic, CNJ could be a DPS since it has the barest bones of a damage rotation.

[Kabooa]

Alright, let's compare the two.

Before 30, CNJ's only attacks are Stone and Aero. EVERYTHING else in their kit is devoted to healing, crowd control and support.

ACN meanwhile gets a filler, two DoTs and a spreader, an oGCD attack and a pet.

So, you're saying that one heal and an "oops" button is all it takes to qualify as a healer for 30 levels? Bearing in mind that is all RDM has at 70, by that logic, CNJ could be a DPS since it has the barest bones of a damage rotation.

Uh, yeah? Have you ever healed the early levels? An arcanist right now could do it, let alone one with a pet heal were it a Healer role instead.

[Archwizard]

Uh, yeah? Have you ever healed the early levels? An arcanist right now could do it, let alone one with a pet heal were it a Healer role instead.

That I have, and while I admit that the Fairy itself has proven more than sufficient for content up to 25, it's worth pointing out that much as the current Carbuncles are downgrades to the SMN Egis, post-healer ACN pets would probably end up as nerfed Fairies, and with the separation there would be no need to maintain their potency while downsynched -- it'd be little different in effect from getting a potency trait at 30, which sounds exactly like what they would do.

Admittedly we have no idea how a separation of the two jobs would be handled, but since they share so many abilities and ACN is presently DPS-oriented, we can practically guarantee that'll end up with more being taken out of SCH's side than SMN's, and I should expect we may even see the job reworked from the ground up.

[Llugen]

I don't know. I said a similar thing in a different thread regarding SMN changes and it wasn't well-received, but I'll say it again here as food for thought.

If I had the magic wand and was told to fix the ACN debacle, I would probably simply delete SMN completely as it currently is, let ACN start as a healer at level 1 in Limsa and it becomes SCH at level 30 etc, and re-release SMN as a newly designed job in 5.0, giving everyone who already has the job leveled a token that can be used to instantly level it to whatever level it was at before the change for your character. They've already repeatedly lamented how they despise that ACN splits into two jobs, and many (I daresay most) people who play SMN don't particularly enjoy the DoTs and Ruin spam with an autoturret and would prefer, or at least feel like it doesn't mesh with what seems to be the fantasy of a "summoner".

This is obviously a fantasy and is definitely far beyond the scope of "fix SMN's physick", but again if I had the magic wand, I think it would be a reasonable solution to this problem and many (many many) others regarding ACN.

[Dyvid]

“But Leon, Summoner is DPS”

Sums up my rebuttal

[Jandor]

Literally the only healing-related actions available to Arcanist are Physick and Resurrection.

With a role change it'd have a heal, a raise, esuna & protect. That's fine for pre-30.

The last time I used Physick, my fully-kitted level 65 SMN healed for just over 500 on a health pool of over 22k.
Physick has a higher potency than Vercure, which can restore nearly half of my capped RDM's health per cast.

Tell me again that it's scaling off the proper stat, because I guarantee that's not INT.

I said all other shared actions scale with the correct stat, and that they do it without a trait.
Scholar and Summoner also share energy drain for example, and it scales correctly for both, and it does it without either job having a stat altering trait.

Your proposed trait was essentially just 'Physick scales exactly like it is supposed to but now can't be cast on others'. Sure, it'd be nice if physick worked right, but it'd mean SMN goes from being the only job with a skill that doesn't scale properly to the only job with a trait that's an outright downgrade.

[LeonTrifang]

WOW THIS POST BLEW UP! THIS HAS TO BE MY MOST POPULAR POST! I’M SO HAPPY! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR COMMENTING!

[SpeckledBurd]

A big problem with buffing Summoner's Physick so that it has roughly the power of Vercure, Scholar!Physick, or Cure 1 is that the overall cost to the Summoner actually using it is significantly less than it is for a Red Mage or a Healer. The vast majority of Summoner's moment to moment damage is coming from Bio III and Miasma III, while the Ruin III Spam you usually do is very low impact filler at only 120 potency. The average potency of the spell a Red Mage would give up (Jolt II/Ver-anything not Holy/Flare) to cast a Vercure is 2-2.5 times higher in potency (240-310 potency), while what the healers give up is about two ruins (Broil/Malefic III: 220 potency, Stone IV: 250). For it to be proportional they'd have to tone down the potency of the heal to be something like 125 or something extremely low.

I raid with my RDM and never needed to Vercure. It heals like 11k HP, that's less than a single auto attack. That shit ain't keeping anyone alive. I've never seen vercure save someone in Savage.

In general I agree with you. I've seen a Red Mage spot heal and have it not be overheal exactly once in a Raid setting. It's so rare an occurrence to be Nonexistent and it really speaks more to the sheer skill and awareness of the Red Mage I was raiding with at the time than it speaks to Red Mage's ability to actually perform as a third string healer.

[Zerathor]

In general I agree with you. I've seen a Red Mage spot heal and have it not be overheal exactly once in a Raid setting. It's so rare an occurrence to be Nonexistent and it really speaks more to the sheer skill and awareness of the Red Mage I was raiding with at the time than it speaks to Red Mage's ability to actually perform as a third string healer.

You're right... which could only mean this is a smn conspiracy to compete with rdm in the true endgame content.... solo palace runs.

We're onto your dirty games, summoners!

[Kabooa]

You're right... which could only mean this is a smn conspiracy to compete with rdm in the true endgame content.... solo palace runs.

We're onto your dirty games, summoners!

Meanwhile, over on the Black Mage corner.