Eureka type content improvements

[Kalise]

they have a raise logogram

In Pyros and Hydatos.

After you attain it through RNG or purchase it off the MB.

[Physic]

That's the problem right there. That's what makes them unfun.

Group content is fine. But when you try to shove the entire map of players into participating, it ceases to be.

they have tons of content designed for one group. The whole point of an open world like map is to have people interacting with each other, and the map. You dont want to make it like a big dungeon with other groups in it, that will likely lead to drama and beef.

they can have some content that is for smaller groups, but they cant make it the main point of play there.

They can have it scale, or they can create events that break up the zerg somewhat, but they want something that the map works together, and benefits as a group.

[Physic]

In Pyros and Hydatos.

After you attain it through RNG or purchase it off the MB.

its pretty small rng. fundamental logogram drops from thunder elementals in a certain level range. And you get fundamental logograms for chain 5,10,15,20. Its basically a guaranteed monster drop. Only a few of the logograms are actually rare drops. Protective and offensive. Curative isnt that hard, but its pretty slow, its from bunny fates. Tactical is pretty common from warped boxes, which can drop from mutated enemies.

[Physic]

Eureka was an experiment, it made sense there, but I don't want any peanlty on death and raise if it is meant to be a broad multiplayer area. The whole situation of special leveling and XP penalties was a bit annoying in the beginning and just flat out disappeared when Pyros kicked in because of the amounts of XP you could get from various sources (NM and reflect).

I'd like more than "killing mobs and repeat". Exploration, gathering, crafting, public dungeons, hunts. Have it unlock glamours or iLvl relevant stuff at a decent time, but never really competing with Raid and Relic gear.

gathering and crafting (in their normal form)cant really be too important, these are solo activities. The map needs to have most of the players there unified in their goals. What if you get a map with 60% of the people there for gathering? then it becomes hard to get people to move the state of the map forward.

they could make certain events have win states that open up limited gathering, or crafting, but it would have to be pretty limited.

Exploration kind of mattered in eureka, in that learning what enemies dropped, whether they mutated or adapted mattered. Or which enemies spawned which fates. As well as traversing the dangerous land with few telepoints. Bunny fates also create a treasure hunt system that took you to different locations for loot.

Also the quest locations, and some fate/forge locations.

What other types of exploration/ incentives for exploration would you want to see?

They could have some events that pop once a certain amount of people find/interact with some special locations.

[Emmanellain]

Here's one...

Raise the drop chance for entry level Eureka, it's mindless grinding to slay 150 monsters and get maybe 20 drops - at this rate I'll waste months on just getting a single full set of the FIRST set of armor, like jesus.

[Kalise]

its pretty small rng.

It's still RNG.

It's still only in half of the Exploratory Mission zones (So far).

It still requires you to go back to camp and upload the Logogram.

Not quite the "Anyone can Raise someone, because this content is designed around people helping others" thing I was suggesting.

they have tons of content designed for one group.

Which is good, because many skills and roles aren't compatible with multiple group content. I mean, Alliance Raids are pretty iffy as is.

One of the main examples is how many healing skills are Party only:

Medica (Also Medica II)
Asylum
Assize
Divine Benison

Succor
Indomitability
Deployment Tactics
Excogitation
Sacred Soil
Fey Union
Every skill from a Fairy (Including Embrace if you're not manually telling her to cast it)

Helios (Also Aspected Helios)
Synastry
Time Dilation
Collective Unconscious
Celestial Opposition
Earthly Star
All Cards (Including Lady of Crowns)

There's also all the other utility skills that jobs get, that are useless outside of Party members only.

In addition, enemies have a cap on the number of debuff effects they can have active at one time. So, if a portion of your kit revolves around having say, DoT's/debuffs active (Such as SMN, BRD, NIN, MNK, DRG, all healers), well you're SoL because in large zergs it can be impossible to apply them to the target.

The whole point of an open world like map is to have people interacting with each other, and the map.

Though, there are ways to do that which don't involve pushing people into zergs.

For example, split FATEs. Where kind of like the Brothers in Pagos, but instead of being literally right next to each other, they're in different locations. So people don't just zerg into one area, mass nuke everything and then move on.

they can have some content that is for smaller groups, but they cant make it the main point of play there.

They absolutely can.

They can make Leve-type content that scales to party size and is thus locked to the party that spawned it (Also seen in things such as Treasure Maps)

They can have it scale, or they can create events that break up the zerg somewhat, but they want something that the map works together, and benefits as a group.

Well, then they completely missed that idea with their current implementation.

Where you get like 10 people working towards spawning a FATE while 130 people sit around waiting for it to spawn in the same location. With people being disinclined to go work on spawning FATEs in other areas, because if something pops it can be killed before people can travel to it (Thanks to the whole "No Mounts until max level" and "MoBs ArE DaNgErOuS" thing)

You know, instead of anything that could actually make people work towards a similar goal and benefit everyone without actively demoting the idea of people being helpful...

Such as Exp/Drop increase buffs that are tied to Fate/Leve/Hunt completions in the area or zone.

Not splitting the focus of players between farming different things - Like how you have mob grinding parties for experience, challenge log parties, Light farming parties (Pagos), Bunny farming parties (Pyros + Hydatos), FATE farming parties - Which all work on individual content that don't interact with each other at all (Outside some Ashkin being tied to a FATE so some CLog parties pop FATEs). Instead, it'd be better if you had these things contribute to a single overarching reward.

Maybe they could do something like have all the activities give 2 types of currency. One being used for your item upgrades, while another is specific to the current instance and is lost upon leaving and is turned in to work towards a particular goal of some sort (Maybe a big FATE boss that everyone can get something from *Cough*Unlike Panini/Luigi/Penth/Prominance which only reward their unique currencies to high level players*Cough*)

You know... Anything that isn't the current implementation that is absolutely horrible for co-operation, due to dumb things like levels segregating players (Also, limiting the ability to help others), the stupid way FATEs are spawned that promotes AFK waiting around the location, as well as the awful way that the death penalty (Also, "Dangerous enemies") can actively work against co-operation (Sorry, I can't go raise you when you're around the corner from this FATE boss. My job can't raise and I haven't equipped a Raise logogram/The FATE will die before I get back and I want my loot/I have to stay with the Train/I'm low level and I'd get killed if I tried to help you)

Though, this is getting a bit too critical.

I'd be happy if they just didn't make progress be an absolute slog because solo progression is awful and FATE Trains are dull af because of the bass ackwards way they spawn.

[Physic]

Here's one...

Raise the drop chance for entry level Eureka, it's mindless grinding to slay 150 monsters and get maybe 20 drops - at this rate I'll waste months on just getting a single full set of the FIRST set of armor, like jesus.

what drops are you looking for? crystals are far more easily obtained by doing fates ans trading them for the ones you need for gear.

[Halivel]

what drops are you looking for? crystals are far more easily obtained by doing fates ans trading them for the ones you need for gear.

The issue is that FATEs will die, if devteam will not adapt instances for smaller groups. Not right now, but in 5.0 there is a very high chance that Eureka will be empty, so spawning and clearing anything with theoretical 8-friends party will be a pain. That's the main problem of such mapwide activities: players say that they "love big group activities so much" but in fact those activities are completely dead after quite short amount of time. Because in reality people prefer play alone or with small group of friends.
Just for understanding: I, or any new player can start do 2.0 or 3.0 right now and will finish it without issues. Will be it possible for 4.0 relic in 5.0 and later? Maybe, but doubtful.

[Physic]

@kalise

ultimately, less harsh on soloing, and more varied gameplay.

fates spawn via people participating in content that lines up with the fate's level they are spawning. groups should be killing things higher level than they are. so people level 32-36 killing level 37 cows, spawns a level 34 ram boss fate for example. Remember fates are labeled for the player level who will recieve credit.

its not designed expecting most people to be solo. A soloist would probably be killing things -1 to +1 levels to itself.

i definitely think something like logograms, or some method of being less role focused would be better earlier in the group map content. the classes stats and abilities make soloing pretty painful for all roles, dps die, healers and tanks take forever.

that said, its never going to be solo focused, at least not when its new.

[CaptainLagbeard]

This is also in effect with NM's themselves too.

Which is super annoying.

Like, all NM's are lower level than the surrounding enemies. Which, when combined with the stupid scaling of levels, means that when you pull an add (Or, this being Eureka, someone pulls THE ENTIRE ZONE INTO THE FATE) it runs over and one shots you...

Which is so dumb...

Especially given how many jobs have AoE's in their ST rotation. To say nothing about healers (Which are also gimpped by virtue of how large scale open world content renders many of their skills obsolete due to being "Party Members Only")

The monsters around NMs are less of an issue as you are much more likely to have a group that has tanks and healers to deal with them... The quests you are more likely to be alone, and have no means of dealing with the much higher level mobs. Additionally, I'm pretty sure some quests put you against mobs with a bigger level difference than the NMs do.