Eureka type content improvements

[Vahlnir]

why do you think its bad that people think of it as a fate? Does fate have a negative connotation or something? I think of fates as group content that scales with players (to an extent) and provides markers on the map. In eureka they are almost all boss fights of some sort.

I don't care for fates and I'm far from the only one. They are boring, mindless content. Making them all bosses in Eureka style content doesn't make them any better. Some like them and their symbols and that's fine. But those who don't have just as much of a right to dislike them.

[Physic]

The community hivemind has decided fates are bad, simply because they have an icon on the map and music announcing them, and a level sync feature. Remove those things and no one would complain somehow.


People are silly.

but... for group mapwide content... dont you need an icon on the map and a level sync feature? Are you saying they want high levels to burn bosses before anyone else even knows they are on the map? Wouldnt that be very bad for mapwide group content?

[Milea]

It is not that fates are bad per se, but been there done that.
They were in diadem. They were in Eureka. They were requirement to grind old relics.

Are they trulynthe only way to implement a powerful boss to fight? No.
Perhaps they are the easiest however, since code already there.

Hunts are't the same as fates. Hunts spawn in different places.

And you didn't notice I added the idea that the hunt should move around, roam the map. Maybe have it change element depending on where it is or spawns etc.

[Physic]

I don't care for fates and I'm far from the only one. They are boring, mindless content. Making them all bosses in Eureka style content doesn't make them any better. Some like them and their symbols and that's fine. But those who don't have just as much of a right to dislike them.

What is it that makes fates more boring and mindless than other bosses, in your opinion? As far as the symbols part goes, they could make new icons i suppose.

[Physic]

It is not that fates are bad per se, but been there done that.
They were in diadem. They were in Eureka. They were requirement to grind old relics.

Are they trulynthe only way to implement a powerful boss to fight? No.
Perhaps they are the easiest however, since code already there.

Hunts are't the same as fates. Hunts spawn in different places.

And you didn't notice I added the idea that the hunt should move around, roam the map. Maybe have it change element depending on where it is or spawns etc.

ok, so the main point is you would want some of the boss creatures to wander, and not always spawn in the same place. Yea, i agree, for some bosses this could be interesting, it can also create some interesting situations where a boss surprises you. I would add they could have some where a boss spawns in the same location, but its a different boss.

you have no problem with them showing their location on the map right? At least once its engaged.

[Vahlnir]

What is it that makes fates more boring and mindless than other bosses, in your opinion? As far as the symbols part goes, they could make new icons i suppose.

You go in, zerg something till it dies and leave. Rinse and repeat. How is that fun and interesting? Especially since that's all they've thrown at us for years? It was probably neat the first 10 fates or so, but when you've done thousands of them through the years you get sick of them. Heck, I was tired of them after completing hundreds of fates prior to the release of patch 2.1, mainly because that was the most efficient way to level...and you know what they did? They made us do more! And not just for relics, they were used for crossover events which made them very painful. Diadem made use of them as well and it was dead content soon after release. Twice. They don't have the best reputation in the world.

It is not that fates are bad per se, but been there done that.
They were in diadem. They were in Eureka. They were requirement to grind old relics.

This pretty much sums it up. They've been used for everything. I feel that they've run their course and something different needs to be done.

[Physic]

You go in, zerg something till it dies and leave. Rinse and repeat. How is that fun and interesting? Especially since that's all they've thrown at us for years? It was probably neat the first 10 fates or so, but when you've done thousands of them through the years you get sick of them. Heck, I was tired of them after completing hundreds of fates prior to the release of patch 2.1, mainly because that was the most efficient way to level...and you know what they did? Made us do more!



This pretty much sums it up. They've been used for everything. I feel that they've run their course and something different needs to be done.

well you are talking about content designed to be about having mapwide goals, so some of it has to be able to accomodate large zergs. They could do some creative seperation, so that the zergs get a bit smaller. like an event that spawns a scaling amount of bosses, depending on how many people participate.

If its more about difficulty, BA shows they can have some more difficult content in large scale battles, but to be honest, many players dont want BA level difficulty from the grind type content

[Brynne]

How about a system where an item needs to be traded to a location to spawn a boss, which then belongs to the party (or alliance, if possible) and scales in difficulty depending on the number of party members? The item could be obtained from the treasure chests mentioned which require exploration, and can also be unique to each party/player so groups aren't fighting over chests. Tie it to a system of map hunting, quests, and/or leves, and it could be a lot of fun, potentially.

I think the main problem is that it is not "open world, anyone can jump in" content, but between hunts and fates, that kind of content seems to have a lot of problems anyway. Why not try something like this instead? You'd still share the open world aspect with others, but you could do your own thing or group up with randoms as you please.

[Kalise]

i agree with most of this however i disagree with the magiboard thats my favorite thing making elements matter is how ff is suppose 2 be

But it doesn't make elements matter.

It's literally "Turn the wheel to the sword icon" in all scenarios outside some specific beyond max level enemies where a Tank will have to use full defensive.

It doesn't actually do anything beyond that. It doesn't change your skill animations to be elemental themed. It doesn't give your attacks any elemental effects (Burning for Fire, Freezing for Ice etc). It's literally just, match the correct colours and do a ton more damage.

the elemental leveling system is to create a self contained leveling system, which acts as an incentive and reason to kill monsters. As well as create goals, and danger in the map.

Though, you can make reasons to kill monsters and create goals without that. Such as Hunts, Challenge Logs, Chain bonuses that actually give things etc.

Also, the way it's currently implemented gives a poor sense of danger. Since, you can just stick to safe parts of the map by farming level appropriate stuff and then when you hit max level for the zone, you can run around 90% of the zone completely free and then it's only beyond max level stuff that actually matters...

The problem with making gear matter more instead of elevel, is gear uses up space, and is a bit harder to give incrementally.

How is it an issue when literally, the primary reason to go to Eureka, is to farm to upgrade the gear?

With the secondary reason being to farm for the vanity items.

The tertiary reason being to actually see the story for the place unfold.

To say nothing about how easily the place gets you to the Tomestone cap, allowing you to purchase that gear to boost your item level in lieu of farming.

As far as new mechanics, Hunts work.... but arent hunts basically fates?

Not really.

Rank 1-3 and B Hunts are nothing like FATEs.

A and S are more like FATEs, but are also the minority of the overall currency generation from Hunts.

They kind of already have treasure hunts with the bunny fates, but they could reskin it, and make the treasure hunt spawning part be more varied and interesting.

But that's not what I was asking for.

That's "Do a FATE, follow a bunny to a Treasure Map type hidden chest"

What I was suggesting was, actually visible Treasure Chests that you can just stumble on randomly. That can make actually going around and exploring to find chests something viable to do, independent of FATEs or grinding mobs.

An example of this, would be in WoW's Timeless Isle. Which, did have randomly spawning chests about the place, with some of them being hidden or obscured (Such as inside tree trunks that you could only see into with your camera at a certain angle, or hidden between some rocks or in some dense foliage etc).

It allowed for a gameplay where you could earn the currency for the place by just running around looking for these chests that would often be missed by players.

Which was a welcome change of pace from the "Run around and hope to get into a party to take out a Rare spawn to get enough credit for loot" and "Get a party and mass farm enemies" gameplay that made up other parts of the content (Sound familiar? )

To be honest, the place also did have some (Albeit one time only) jumping/platforming puzzles that lead to chests too, which were quite fun. Especially given that some of them had you dealing with the enemies in the zone (Either killing them, or bypassing them because they were dangerous)

All of this was without the need for "Elemental Levels" (It just made dangerous places, dangerous for everyone. Not just low levels) or putting everything behind "Farm worthless trash"/"Farm NM's" type content

Which is actually the reason why the majority of players hated Timeless Isle, because it got boring to do those things over and over for the entirety of its relevancy. Also, this was with trash actually having mechanics too, such as the Frogs that stacked a debuff which when it got high enough would instantly kill you, the elementals that would deal massive damage attacks in odd patterns (Think Serket from Anemos), enemies that would spawn massive slow moving Golems that were invulnerable and hit like a truck so would force you to keep kiting them as you killed the enemy, enemies that could be killed easier if you had a buff from a fire sprite type enemy that would spawn in certain locations throughout a cave etc.

Like, one of the primary issues with Eureka, is that it heavily promotes just doing 1 of 2 things. Farming FATEs (Either regular FATEs with the Train or Bunny FATEs) or farming specific trash mobs (Which was also necessary to spawn FATEs...)

Which gets repetitive. With little to no alternatives to do at all.

While, I'm suggesting it should get more alternatives, that would get people doing things continuously, providing some variety and allowing stuff like FATEs to pop up randomly and then draw people in to take them out before going back to something else.

Since, I don't think having 90% of the instance AFKing waiting for a NM spawn was the intended "Jolly Co-operation" type of gameplay that was in mind for this type of content. Heck, even Timeless Isle didn't have AFKers (Not that it mattered, since Rares only scaled with the number of people hitting it, not that were in the zone) because there was always something to be doing. With the worst case being you just come in and do your daily quests for their reward and then leave, for people who wanted to interact with the content as little as possible (With Daily/Weekly quests being similar to the Challenge Log. "Kill X enemies", "Kill 5 unique Rares", "Get X amount of currency in the week")

[Kalise]

1) Quest locations, they're all in locations with enemies higher level than the quest needs. Make the quests more reasonable by placing them in areas where you can fight the enemies solo, using Pagos for example the level 23 quest makes you walk past level 27 enemies which will murder you horribly if they see you.

This is also in effect with NM's themselves too.

Which is super annoying.

Like, all NM's are lower level than the surrounding enemies. Which, when combined with the stupid scaling of levels, means that when you pull an add (Or, this being Eureka, someone pulls THE ENTIRE ZONE INTO THE FATE) it runs over and one shots you...

Which is so dumb...

Especially given how many jobs have AoE's in their ST rotation. To say nothing about healers (Which are also gimpped by virtue of how large scale open world content renders many of their skills obsolete due to being "Party Members Only")