feedback on normal raids behavior

[TalosEscher]

can we please stop acting like casual normal raids are just like savage and everything needs to be almost perfect in other for it to work? small things like countdown at the beginning for the fight, constant buffs from dps, tank using dps stance to maximize damage. those are great strats but if not done by some it shouldnt be met with hostility.
back when the raids came out people started pushing this idea of dps stancing on raid and having the other tank taunt the boss and shirk me, i didnt know how to do it back then, and they all got mad at me for not doing it. and nowadays its like countdown is the most vital thing in the world, and sure i dont do it right off the bat and i will do a countdown and ready check before pulling if people ask nicely, but they never do. we come across in all the roulletes people that dont do things that are optimal and sure its annoying, put you keep quiet, you dont know if they are new or just gonna bite your throat for giving a friendly advice. many times in here i was told that i cant tell people they are wrong, i cant tell them how to play, because there are no wrong way to play and everyone should play how they see fit, why then is normal raids any different?
just please relax, let people play, if they do something that impedes progress you can easily report them, we are not gonna die if someone doesnt play casual normal raids as optimal as possible.
please tell me if im missing something, or if im wrong, or anything you want to add about this situation.

[HyoMinPark]

Countdowns are polite things to do in things like normal mode 8-mans and 24-mans; Ready Checks are also nice for the latter over just pulling a boss without knowing if all of your alliances are actually ready (especially if there are important mechanics happening early on, like in Thundergod Cid’s Fight with Cleansing Strike—I’ve seen many people just instantly pull TGC; and then an entire alliance drops dead because the healers weren’t ready for that mechanic).


As for Provoke/Shirking, that’s just playing your job and being a good teammate.

You not knowing how to do it at first is fine, and no, you shouldn’t be berated for not knowing how to do it initially. But you should honestly be utilizing the skills after you learned how to properly do it, much how BRD/MCH are expected to utilize Refresh/Tactician or Palisade or how casters are expected to use Mana Shift—and how everyone is expected to use things like Diversion and Lucid Dreaming for aggro management.

The same applies to party buffs jobs may have—it’s really annoying for me to see level 70 BRDs not use any of their songs, for example. Not only are they hurting their party members, they’re hurting themselves: because a lot of BRD’s damage is locked behind its song rotation now.


You also shouldn’t expect other tanks to be fine with sitting in their tank stance and taking the damage penalty. Some people like stance dancing on tanks because it makes the job more engaging—I’m not a tank player, but I dislike sitting in Shield Oath all the time; I’d rather be in Sword Oath trying to optimize enmity and damage because it’s simply more engaging. It’s always much appreciated when a co-tank does Provoke-Shirk me, because then we’re working together to maximize our efficiency. Even in normal mode raids, I still like to be efficient as possible.


Harassing people is never okay, but I have to disagree with the premise that we can just be lazy or not care about how we play “because it’s not Savage”. I think people should always try to play as well as they can—and that includes playing like a team player, and utilizing any and all support capabilities that they may have.

[Legion88]

"Casual"


At first there is no duty in this game that is casual.

After you realize this you can start to build up new arguments but for now i will clear your misunderstandings.

Countdowns are a easy way to get a smooth start of the fight and many "normal raid" fights are not as easy as you think especially at the beginning of their life cycle "casual" play dooms more runs then a more target oriented play style.

Constant buffs from DPS? If you talk about buff food, this is a bit overrated for normal raid, but not using the toolkits of a job and just play it halveassed because you don't feel like putting in some effort is just plain disrespect for you teammates. Just ask yourself, would you clear if everyone would play with the same effort and skill level you play.

Oh no the tank stance against DPS stance argument again...for short there is no need for tank stance outside of an opener and perhaps if you are running out of cooldowns. Voke/shirk is the basic of double tank strategies it should be engraved in tank minds like tank swaps, cooldown usage and enemy positioning.

Ready check and countdown is just a simple tool for the tank to see if everyone is ready for the fight and the countdown is nothing else like simple signal for the pull it is so vital because it simplifies the process of the pull and is the most "casual" friendly function in the game.

You can say how people should play because there is a wrong way to play. Taking damage you don't have to take is a wrong way to play. Also there is a big difference between playing unoptimized and effortless and you can simply see it.

As my last words on this: This is a game, a team game, and everyone participating in a team should show enough respect for their team mates to get on an unoptimized level of skill before entering any parties.
If you are an effortless player you are on the same level as griefing and harrassing.

Just my 2 cent.

[TalosEscher]

"Casual"

its just to distinguish from savage

[TalosEscher]

@HyoMinPark (idk how calling someone in a post works) i agree with you fully, i think its really fun to explore the jobs we have to the max, and i enjoy dps tanking on raids, but barely no ot does it even after i ask them to do it, they dont even respond they just ignore me so i just dont try anymore. and that goes for other people in the raid too, idk if they dont care, or dont know about how to play to the fullest, i dont care to judge them either for how they play, i just accept it and move on.
what i want people to stop doing is getting real mad at others when they dont have they expectations met, like how today someone just killed themselfs and kept whining about not having enough time to summon their pet and we had to kick them. if it is a polite thing to do the countdown i'll make a habit of it, but really i just want people to be polite about it.

[Legion88]

its just to distinguish from savage

Isn't "normal" enough?
Because "casual" implies a certain difficulty this duties don't meet regulary.

[TalosEscher]

Isn't "normal" enough?
Because "casual" implies a certain difficulty this duties don't meet regulary.

ok, normal raids