Rule Change-

[Arrhin]

Oki, and to address the OP topic PROPERLY. I think that in a Teen+ or 14+ or w/e this place is rated for (With a disclaimer about online interactions NOT bein rated) environment some bloody cussin is expected. I think it's heavy handed language in the ToS, like alot of it tbh and I don believe it should be written that way. I see that #&^%#%&% thing bein broken so much it kinda takes the credibility right outta it anyways!

[Arrhin]

I've personally never heard of anyone gettin a suspension fer cussin in chat, shout, yell or otherwise. I bin spendin some time on Balmung lately fer...research purposes.... and sweet Twelve they should all be banned accordin to the rules. I do hope that most GMs would check logs and context before a suspension. It's not that I don believe you, in fact I share yer opinion on the matter of casual cussin, I jus never encountered it and I am indeed known fer me potty mouth at times. Mebbe I jus bin lucky? And for the record, I did once report someone fer hate speech, their name was rather offensive in a sorta 1940's german dictator fashion. I did have to speak with a GM and recount my experience and give permission to access chat logs, they did get back to me apologizin for the incident and notifyin me that said individual was logged out from the game forcefully with the understandin that they must change their name (and that of their birb) to summat more tasteful. I think it was handled well, not how I woulda done it....that woulda got me banned <.< but it was fair fer what was prolly a first offense. If we're down to instabans...well then..I do not agree

[Penthea]

Personally I feel context matters most. Just looking at the slur on its own is rarely enough. The f-word is often used in an emphatic way. For example is saying "I'm so f-ing happy" such a bad thing? Of course not. You don't need to use profanity to be offensive, and not every use of profanity is intended to be offensive.

Of course some words are just bad in any context, such as the n-word. But most of the time words that fall under the profanity category need context to see if the intention was to be rude or not.

I don't know if SE don't care about the context of a word and if it's enough for them if said word was used. I really hope this is not the case, but this is SE and some of their rules regarding behaviour are quite...odd.

[Arrhin]

Personally I feel context matters most. Just looking at the slur on its own is rarely enough. The f-word is often used in an emphatic way. For example is saying "I'm so f-ing happy" such a bad thing? Of course not. You don't need to use profanity to be offensive, and not every use of profanity is intended to be offensive.

Of course some words are just bad in any context, such as the n-word. But most of the time words that fall under the profanity category need context to see if the intention was to be rude or not.

I don't know if SE don't care about the context of a word and if it's enough for them if said word was used. I really hope this is not the case, but this is SE and some of their rules regarding behaviour are quite...odd.

Gods, our FC alliance Linkshell is jus a ToS nightmare...BANNED!!!

[Bonbori]

It seems to me like the easiest way to avoid any issue with the profanity rule is to simply not use bad words in circumstances where they could be seen as inflammatory.

I don't think anybody's ever been punished for saying vulgar things in their FC chat or otherwise amongst friends, but if someone is cursing like a sailor in a public chat, in front of strangers, that is not appropriate social behaviour and anyone who wishes to report it is fully justified in doing so.

[Arrhin]

It seems to me like the easiest way to avoid any issue with the profanity rule is to simply not use bad words in circumstances where they could be seen as inflammatory.

I don't think anybody's ever been punished for saying vulgar things in their FC chat or otherwise amongst friends, but if someone is cursing like a sailor in a public chat, in front of strangers, that is not appropriate social behaviour and anyone who wishes to report it is fully justified in doing so.

This, so much

[Nikolas_Wolfe]

It seems to me like the easiest way to avoid any issue with the profanity rule is to simply not use bad words in circumstances where they could be seen as inflammatory.

I don't think anybody's ever been punished for saying vulgar things in their FC chat or otherwise amongst friends, but if someone is cursing like a sailor in a public chat, in front of strangers, that is not appropriate social behaviour and anyone who wishes to report it is fully justified in doing so.

I can see your side to this, of course there is a limit when general banter becomes inappropriate.
But let's say you're in a duty roulette, you make a mistake and die to a mechanic. You say "oh s*** my bad lol"
Is that really something that should be reported? Especially when there are filters in place, and filters that are removable.

That is the only thing I just can't understand.

And according to their rules 3.3 states profanity or offensive language. Something that a reasonable person might find offensive. So you can be in your FC chat with friends, and someone you don't know well or for whatever reason doesn't like you, (maybe you had a falling out as friends) and they decide to report you and claim to be offended. Is that fair or justifiable?

[Arrhin]

I can see your side to this, of course there is a limit when general banter becomes inappropriate.
But let's say you're in a duty roulette, you make a mistake and die to a mechanic. You say "oh s*** my bad lol"
Is that really something that should be reported? Especially when there are filters in place, and filters that are removable.

That is the only thing I just can't understand.

And according to their rules 3.3 states profanity or offensive language. Something that a reasonable person might find offensive. So you can be in your FC chat with friends, and someone you don't know well or for whatever reason doesn't like you, (maybe you had a falling out as friends) and they decide to report you and claim to be offended. Is that fair or justifiable?

I do say that, F bomb and all. Never been reported that I know of. I think, and I'm not sayin my experience is universal mind you, that any person that would report fer that is malicious anyways and I'd hope that the GM might take that into account. They do go over logs and they do look at context. I do however believe that the system can be used by a malicious person to harm another, because of how the ToS is written. We bin over issues like this ad nauseum in our LS since the new ToS was released. Lets be fair here, it's crap, up for abuse...and written by someone with either an overly idealistic idea of how ppl interact, or a 1st year law student, idk which.

[Nikolas_Wolfe]

I do say that, F bomb and all. Never been reported that I know of. I think, and I'm not sayin my experience is universal mind you, that any person that would report fer that is malicious anyways and I'd hope that the GM might take that into account. They do go over logs and they do look at context. I do however believe that the system can be used by a malicious person to harm another, because of how the ToS is written. We bin over issues like this ad nauseum in our LS since the new ToS was released. Lets be fair here, it's crap, up for abuse...and written by someone with either an overly idealistic idea of how ppl interact, or a 1st year law student, idk which.

Exactly! Certain levels of profanity are expected in an MMO. Hands down. Obviously as I said, there is a limit when it becomes inappropriate. But come on for the most part, it is harmless.

Sometimes GMs don't care to look at context because I have NEVER maliciously harassed or used severe profanity towards someone, and I was suspended in the past. They refused to at least give me an idea of what exactly I was reported for. I believe that having 1 GM conduct an investigation is poor quality control. It should be given to a team of several to determine a decision.

And I love your ending comment, I actually AM a law student, and wholeheartedly agree, the way it was written is poor.

[Penthea]

Sometimes GMs don't care to look at context because I have NEVER maliciously harassed or used severe profanity towards someone, and I was suspended in the past. They refused to at least give me an idea of what exactly I was reported for. I believe that having 1 GM conduct an investigation is poor quality control. It should be given to a team of several to determine a decision.

Nah this decision making has nothing to do with the fact that usually only one GM looks at a case. It has to do with things like company policy, internal rules, training, quality control, and ofc the ToS.

I know quite a few people who GM for Blizzard and that company tends to handle profanity by looking at context, whether the profane response was provoked by someone else, etc. You would still get a warning depending on what was said, but they're not as blindly harsh about it as SE. And most GM tickets are handled by one person in Blizzard.