I'd like to talk about the powerscaling of Zenos vs WoL

[KokonoeAiyoko]

So it's been a bit since this part of the story occurred but I never have placed my thoughts somewhere so felt I should here. Essentially you lose twice to Zenos, although without much drama compared to WoL's other 'final battles', which I find odd but that's a whole other subject so I'd like to focus on a different part that urks me to no end.

With the previous two battles the story wants to imply that Zenos is much stronger than you and even with the second battle you really don't do much anything at all to him and still lose.

Yet... on the third confrontation, you actually beat him then he fuses with Shinryu and you beat that too? The heck??? So you're telling me someone who eclipsed us in battle strength the previous two fights we were able to not only transcend his base form but a form with him and Shinryu as one?

It's completely unbelievable from a narrative standpoint and really damages the whole dynamic they laid out here in my opinion.

[Iscah]

I've seen a not-exactly-canon explanation that Zenos is Lv70 at the start of Stormblood - so he outlevels us at the beginning, but then we caught up!

[JeanneOrnitier]

It really bothered me too. Nothing changed about us in the narrative. It's like it actually was counting those 10 levels as story.

[RenewalXVII]

It really bothered me too. Nothing changed about us in the narrative. It's like it actually was counting those 10 levels as story.

Ultimately, that's the nature of a level-based RPG: rather than giving our characters a training montage or something similar, it elides over our growth via leveling and numerical experience. It's just how the medium works. Note that we also go through our job quests over that same period, so that can be another indicator or demonstration of how our abilities grow to match Zenos.

[swiss_Momo]

we as the WoL are pretty much specialised into eating primals for breakfast, so by fusing with Shinryu Zenos practically asked for an arse wooping. Also as mentioned, us levelling up trough the MSQ is somewhat canon

[Cilia]

Zenos actually is Lv70 to begin with (which makes the inevitable losses to him even harder - it takes a lot of tries just to get that sliver of damage in), but as you proceed through the story you do get stronger. In the first fight you just endure his blows until Zenos' cheap Garlean katana breaks (katana are not known for durability) and he gets bored and leaves, dismissing you as unworthy of his time; in the final battle he's going at you full tilt with a legendary weapon (Ame-no-Habakiri) and you fight him to a standstill or maybe even decisively prevail (he's winded after the fight; the Warrior of Light is not).

... though it helps that in the final showdown the Warrior of Light has three others backing them up. Either way, Zenos canonically acknowledges your growth in performance.

Shinryu? Ah, well, the Warrior of Light specializes in killing eikons... so that was not the smartest move. (They also had seven people backing them up, so...)

[gumas]

^
pretty much what i though too. at the start of SB, zenos is already at level 70 while us WOL probably still at early 60's. by the time the 2nd battle happened, we probably already at 70, same with zenos but status wise the WOL probably a tad better (with all those multi clasing stuff). then Shinryu happened and... well considering our WOL track record at pummeling primal/eikon left and right, i say zenos just shoot himself on the foot right?

then the latest "zenos" fight in patch 4.57 happened, and it convinced me. we WOL lost again, so that mean this "zenos" is probably at level 80 =)

just once, can i have a last boss fight which is not an oversized dragon or anything, just give me a normal humanoid size, at this point i think iam more afraid with normal size than the usual "oh iam so big iam so powerfull" type of boss.

[ObsidianFire]

Err... in the fight we have with an Elidibus-posessed Zenos' body, he's a pushover until we end up getting Called. That's not Elidibus beating us with Zenos' body, that's someone else interfering in our fight and causing us to lose. Up until we got called, it was a reversal of the fight we have with Zenos in Rhalgr's Reach.

[Jaywalker]

Err... in the fight we have with an Elidibus-posessed Zenos' body, he's a pushover until we end up getting Called. That's not Elidibus beating us with Zenos' body, that's someone else interfering in our fight and causing us to lose. Up until we got called, it was a reversal of the fight we have with Zenos in Rhalgr's Reach.

Honestly, while idk if other people would agree I also took it as a major difference in skill between Elidibus and Zenos as people. Not just physical strength. Elidibus is used to throwing around magic and hasn't had to hone his physical fighting to the degree that Zenos (an obsessive and magic-less Garlean) has. It's like putting a teen boy at the helm of a professional race car. Sure he'll go fast but manage turns? Avoid crashing? Good luck.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we haven't had a one-on-one rematch with Zenos yet with Zenos at the the helm of his own body.

[griffinborn]

Like we DBZ fans always say: powerlevels are bullshit!

There's no denying our individual growth. We as WoL make mistakes and can learn from them, but it can be hard to portray being silent protagonists. We probably have our inner thoughts about feeling inadequate and not being able to save our friends.