How Advanced Is Medical Knowledge & Tech in Eorzea?

[gumas]

medical knowledge? i say lower than our current world tech. frankly speaking i never see any scene/dialogue regarding someone getting medical operation or someone getting a medicine or some sort, even throughout my play when i see someone sick on bed or visiting sick ward, i never see a medical contraption around it, just a bed and a drawer beside it, thats all. the best i can think is probably like herbal tea or leaf patch than an actual medicine if there is any.

probably because magic play larger part when it come to healing, when the healing fail, then the medical knowledge act as a support/backup plan. i mean, if medical knowledge is far more potent than healing, then we as healer will be busy throwing regular/high/X potion inside dungeon instead of casting cure skill lol

off course this all based as us on eorzean side. the empire side still remain mystery but considering they have something like producing gas weapon and even clone tech. i say they maybe more or less on the same as our current tech.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I don't recall when and where I came upon this answer to a similar question put to the creators of Dungeons & Dragons: Essentially there is a distinction between knowing how to create a magical effect, and knowing why the spell works in the first place.

In a world where magic is real, it becomes a phenomenon that, by extrapolation, could be studied and investigated scientifically, the way we would do so for physical phenomena in our reality.

Think of it this way: Long before we understood the chemistry and physics of combustion, our ancestors knew how to create fire, and how to use it in a variety of ways, including for warfare. Similarly, our ancestors also knew, by trial and error, which types of herbs and ingredients are best suited for healing various kinds of physical ailments. They may not have known why these methods for creating fire and healing would work, but they certainly knew how to apply them.

This would then be the basis for thinking about the state and level of medical knowledge and technology in Eorzea. For the most part, Eorzean magic-users and practitioners of aetherically enhanced combat probably do not know nor understand the physics and chemistry behind the phenomena they create. Nor would they really need to. All that matters is that they can learn several generations' worth of applied knowledge, and then perhaps expand on such knowledge through further trial and error.

The Garleans, on the other hand, have gone beyond trial and error, to develop scientific methodology. They are very likely forming theories about the physical laws that make magic possible, and it's from this understanding that they are able to develop magitek, an approximation of magical effects through machinery. But even so, the Garleans are amateurs compared to the Allagans, who achieved such mastery over aethero-chemistry, that they were even able to create "airships" capable of interstellar travel.

The closest thing that the Eorzeans have to a "science" of magic is arcanima. The Sharlayans are the foremost authority in this particular field of magic, followed by the arcanists of Limsa Lominsa. I like to think of it as the Eorzean analogy to the differences between "British empiricism" and "continental rationalism" (Hume versus Locke). The Sharlayans, I like to imagine, are the "rationalists" who enjoy thinking about metaphysics, and deriving experiments to test such theories. The Lominsans, on the other hand, are probably more pragmatic, and more interested in the applied aspects of arcanima.

Ultimately, the word "advanced" in the context of a fantasy setting where magic is real needs to be defined differently. The lifestyles of Eorzeans may appear analagous to those of medieaval Europe, but in terms of the conveniences and quality of life that Eorzeans enjoy, one could say that they are effectively the equivalent of modern industrial societies in our reality.

After all, why would an Eorzean want to invent an electric lightbulb — one of the "modern" conveniences we Earthlings take for granted — when you have spells or aethero-chemical methods for creating light? Does that make an Eorzean more "primitive" than us, or Garleans for that matter? I think it's really just a matter of perspective.

[RenewalXVII]

I don't recall when and where I came upon this answer to a similar question put to the creators of Dungeons & Dragons: Essentially there is a distinction between knowing how to create a magical effect, and knowing why the spell works in the first place.

In a world where magic is real, it becomes a phenomenon that, by extrapolation, could be studied and investigated scientifically, the way we would do so for physical phenomena in our own reality.

Think of it this way: Long before we understood the chemistry and physics of combustion, our ancestors knew how to create fire, and how to use it in a variety of ways, including for warfare. Similarly, our ancestors also knew, by trial and error, which types of herbs and ingredients are best suited for healing various kinds of physical ailments. They may not have known why these methods for creating fire and healing wounds would work, but they certainly knew how to apply them.

This would then be the basis for thinking about the state and level of medical knowledge and technology in Eorzea. For the most part, Eorzean magic-users and practitioners of aetherically enhanced combat probably do not know nor understand the physics and chemistry behind the phenomena they create. Nor would they really need to. All that matters is for them to learn several generations' worth of applied knowledge, and then perhaps expand on this body of knowledge through further trial and error.

The Garleans, on the other hand, have gone beyond trial and error, to develop scientific methodology. They are very likely forming theories about the physical laws that make magic possible, and it's from this understanding that they are able to develop magitek, an approximation of magical effects through the use of machines. But even so, the Garleans are amateurs compared to the Allagans, who achieved such mastery over aethero-chemistry, that they were even able to create "airships" capable of interstellar travel.

The closest thing that the Eorzeans have to a "science" of magic is arcanima. The Sharlayans are the foremost authority in this particular field of magic, followed by the arcanists based in Limsa Lominsa. I like to think of it as the Eorzean analogy to the differences between "British empiricism" and "continental rationalism" (Hume versus Locke) during the height of the Enlightenment period in European history. The Sharlayans, I like to imagine, are the "rationalists" who enjoy thinking about metaphysics, and deriving experiments to test such theories. The Lominsans, on the other hand, are more pragmatic, and are probably more interested in the applied aspects of arcanima.

Ultimately, the word "advanced" in the context of a fantasy setting where magic is real needs to be defined differently. The lifestyles of Eorzeans may appear analagous to those of medieaval Europe, but in terms of the conveniences and quality of life that Eorzeans are able to achieve through magic, one could say that they are effectively the equivalent of modern industrial societies in our reality.

After all, why would an Eorzean want to invent an electric lightbulb — one of the "modern" conveniences we Earthlings for granted — when you have spells or aethero-chemical methods for creating light? Does that make an Eorzean more "primitive" than our society, or Garlean society for that matter? I think it's really just a matter of perspective.

Also worth considering are the catastrophic effects of the Calamities, which greatly exceed most disasters on Earth. The Ascians periodically destroy the arc of progress to keep their plans in order, which greatly limits how much development post-Calamity societies can undergo. How long must it take to rediscover the basics after everything is wiped away? How much time is spent simply cobbling that together, instead of refining and pushing forward new avenues of knowledge?

[Wyssahtyn]

Not advanced enough for every crippled Tom, Dick, and Harry to have magitek prostheses that's for sure.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Really, like everything in this game it requires a bit of suspension of disbelief to work, as there is a handy hint in the series title after all. Don't think too much into it.

I love this answer. But, you know, I wouldn't be a storyteller if I didn't think about such things.

I don't recall when and where I came upon this answer to a similar question put to the creators of Dungeons & Dragons: Essentially there is a distinction between knowing how to create a magical effect, and knowing why the spell works in the first place.

In a world where magic is real, it becomes a phenomenon that, by extrapolation, could be studied and investigated scientifically, the way we would do so for physical phenomena in our reality.

Think of it this way: Long before we understood the chemistry and physics of combustion, our ancestors knew how to create fire, and how to use it in a variety of ways, including for warfare. Similarly, our ancestors also knew, by trial and error, which types of herbs and ingredients are best suited for healing various kinds of physical ailments. They may not have known why these methods for creating fire and healing would work, but they certainly knew how to apply them.

This would then be the basis for thinking about the state and level of medical knowledge and technology in Eorzea. For the most part, Eorzean magic-users and practitioners of aetherically enhanced combat probably do not know nor understand the physics and chemistry behind the phenomena they create. Nor would they really need to. All that matters is that they can learn several generations' worth of applied knowledge, and then perhaps expand on such knowledge through further trial and error.

The Garleans, on the other hand, have gone beyond trial and error, to develop scientific methodology. They are very likely forming theories about the physical laws that make magic possible, and it's from this understanding that they are able to develop magitek, an approximation of magical effects through machinery. But even so, the Garleans are amateurs compared to the Allagans, who achieved such mastery over aethero-chemistry, that they were even able to create "airships" capable of interstellar travel.

The closest thing that the Eorzeans have to a "science" of magic is arcanima. The Sharlayans are the foremost authority in this particular field of magic, followed by the arcanists of Limsa Lominsa. I like to think of it as the Eorzean analogy to the differences between "British empiricism" and "continental rationalism" (Hume versus Locke). The Sharlayans, I like to imagine, are the "rationalists" who enjoy thinking about metaphysics, and deriving experiments to test such theories. The Lominsans, on the other hand, are probably more pragmatic, and more interested in the applied aspects of arcanima.

Ultimately, the word "advanced" in the context of a fantasy setting where magic is real needs to be defined differently. The lifestyles of Eorzeans may appear analogous to those of medieval Europe, but in terms of the conveniences and quality of life that Eorzeans enjoy, one could say that they are effectively the equivalent of modern industrial societies in our reality.

After all, why would an Eorzean want to invent an electric lightbulb — one of the "modern" conveniences we Earthlings take for granted — when you have spells or aethero-chemical methods for creating light? Does that make an Eorzean more "primitive" than us, or Garleans for that matter? I think it's really just a matter of perspective.

What an amazing post. Anyone who can work Hume versus Locke into a discussion about fantasy technology is someone I want on my friend list.

With so much magic around, it is certainly the case the average Eorzean takes it for granted, and doesn't think about how it works. This is exactly like people of today are surrounded by so many things that we just use.

Off topic: You mention the Sharlayans. They definitely know their esoteric stuff, don't they?

Without giving away spoilers, there is a series of cutscenes where the Sharlayans go in-depth on magic theory. As someone who uses magic in real life, I have to say I was impressed. With the exception of crystals being fossilized mana, what was presented was a working magic system.

[Cilia]

Well the allagans literally had cloning tech. Garlemald doesn't seem far behind with some of the things they can do.

The Garleans actually have reverse engineered Allagan cloning tech, but the exact circumstances surrounding it are a bit of a spoiler.

Not advanced enough for every crippled Tom, Dick, and Harry to have magitek prostheses that's for sure.

I actually kept asking about whether or not Raubahn could get a Barrett-style prosthetic arm to replace the one he lost to Ilberd, and the devs ultimately said the Garleans have that kind of tech but don't share it with the world. So it's possible, but beyond Eorzean technical capabilities. (Maybe the Ironworks can use that as their next big project.)

[NoblePigeon]

I think I remember that cutscene, where a certain Sharlayan scholar uses very estoeric real world scientific words to describe aetherial effects.

The specimen is more than a simple manifestation of elementally aspected energies -- it is, rather, an aetherial lodestone whose facilitation of both the absorption and transmission of distinct-frequency NRR-type harmonic vibrations has been observed to promote aetherial amplification.

The resultant neuro-harmonic disturbance allows for a highly unique emittance of CPRS waves that, instead of radiating outward with a determinate factor of dispersal, instead resonate inward at a frequency so labored, my estimates place the rate of VRT decay at upwards of several centuries... though I must admit I lack sufficient variates to complete a truly comprehensive graphical assessment.

Idly, only semi-related musings: In this setting, aether itself is not magic. The study of aether in its natural tendencies isn't magic. The textbook definition of magic is manipulating aether outside of its normal, natural tendencies. In that respect, I imagine that's what technology vs. magic boils down to in the setting. Technology, even magitek, uses aether in ways that are within "natural" and predictable models. Magic is another field entirely that plays with whole new rules on how to manipulate this natural force.

In that regard, I'd say that, at least when it comes to aetherology, Eorzea probably has much more of a better hands on practical on it than Garleans do, while Sharlayans reign supreme in tackling it scientifically.. Eorzea's had centuries of working with an aether-rich environment to have a deep appreciation of the inner workings of aether, which means that they have an understand of a certain aspect of the universe that Garlemald doesn't really have. That's not to say that Garleans don't know about aetherology (after all, they DID create an artifical Echo, something that not even the Allagans are able to accomplish).

Again, only semi related babbling, but I find this kind of topic in fantasy settings to be fascinating. TinyRedLeaf's reminded me about Eberron, IMO the best D&D setting out there, in that it treats magic as a kind of science. So you have stuff like magic-powered robots, airships, trains...GREAT.

[Sylvain]

Id like to immediately agree and say low tech one hundred percent...but then I look at a city like Ishgard and wonder what the hell kind of amazing engineering they have being able to build a city like that. Eorzea also has modern day levels of plumbing and music players (I.e. the orchestra rolls)...at least amongst those who can afford it. The Goldsmith’s Guild greatly specializes in clockwork technology. And then there’s the Golden Saucer...

Basically, high technology is not unknown in Eorzea. In fact, with the rise of Garlond Ironworks and increased trade with goblins, it’s becoming far more prominent in recent years. But for now at least, it’s restricted to those that can afford it, I.e successful adventurers like ourselves.

I suppose the rock they use is very light and sturdy

[LineageRazor]

It's worth noting that illnesses seem to be well under control. Aside from the Tonberries (and their illness is a very special case), there doesn't seem to be any kind of quarantine areas, like leper colonies or whatever. In fact, illnesses in general are rarely mentioned; I'm sure someone in game must have a tragic backstory of losing one or both parents to illness, but off the top of my head I can't remember any. Magic and/or magitek seem to be VERY effective at keeping sickness at bay - possibly even better than real life medical science is capable of.

To be really fair, native Eorzean medical knowledge appears to be somewhat rooted at a medieval level, with a solid belief in long-abandoned archaic theories such as body humours. Not to mention a lot of medical treatment is purely magical, using conjury and arcanima to heal wounds and disease (and by extension, white magic and scholary magic). Then there is alchemy for healing which is another branch of medicine which is perhaps closer to actual scientific principles of chemistry (as it was in the real world), but still with a esoteric bent.

Just to toss in the standard disclaimer, just because medical knowledge involves theories long abandoned in real life, does not mean those theories are WRONG. This is a fantasy universe, and stuff like the theory of body humours might actually be true.

[ChaoticCrimson]

I definitely agree an interesting thing to consider is the impact of the calamities on Hydaelyn as a whole and their effects on technology. Compared to many previous calamities, Eorzea seems to have recovered remarkably well from the Seventh Umbral Calamity when you consider how much knowledge and tech was lost in previous ones just from civilizations like Alag, the Mhachi, and the Amdapori alone. Of course, the traces exist, but there are few left who can comprehend them.