New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Penthea]

so, if they actually do decide to let new players opt out of old msq in shadow bringers, will you be upset?

Considering I like playing alts, yes, because it would directly affect my experience in the game. Making the msq essentially become side content would very much change the core of how it feels to progress through the game. It would drastically change the game for me. The msq is one of the major factors that drew me to this game. Of course I don't want its pivotal position removed.

I also would be shocked if it happened because it frankly would be a colossal waste of money and time to turn msq content into side content when SE could use that time and money to fix content that is universally agreed to not be working properly (housing) or to make actual new content. Especially when you consider those who have such a big problem with it as much as you have are very much a minority in this game, and furthermore you can quickly flick through the msq or use a skip potion. It's not as if you are forced to watch every scrap of lore very slowly like in msq roulette. And unless you make alts the msq only needs to be done once.

As for those saying "but I have seen the msq make players quit" yea, I have too. But I also saw the lvling experience in WoW, BDO, STO, ESO and GW2 make people quit.

Should any of these games make major changes to the lvling experience in them because a handful of players didn't like it? No, of course not. It's impossible to please everyone. The best you can do is please your target audience, and SE are doing a good job at that as far as the msq is concerned. There is some serious hype for the ShB msq. Far more than there was for SB. And the hype is there because those players know what happened in the story up to that point.

It's worth noting that a pretty big demand over the last few years is for Vanilla WoW to be a thing again. A big complaint is how hand holding WoW has become in many respects. This is the opposite of what we should be expecting if the idea is New players hate the MSQ generally and it takes to long to get to current content. Because the argument for Vanilla is that yeah, it was longer and more intensive, but people felt it was worth it. Another reason why WoW probably is failing is they pushed to hard to include every person, and as a result dumbed down the game to much.

Yea WoW's lvling experience changed over time. The things you had to do didn't really change, but the degree of challenge and time investment did. I understand trimming the time investment due to the amount of lvls, but there was no need to let the old content become so deteriorated that mobs would fall over if you so much as sneeze in their general direction. I saw this make a lot of new players quit. They were bored.

[Physic]

Considering I like playing alts, yes, because it would directly affect my experience in the game. Making the msq essentially become side content would very much change the core of how it feels to progress through the game. It would drastically change the game for me. The msq is one of the major factors that drew me to this game. Of course I don't want its pivotal position removed.

I also would be shocked if it happened because it frankly would be a colossal waste of money and time to turn msq content into side content when SE could use that time and money to fix content that is universally agreed to not be working properly (housing) or to make actual new content. Especially when you consider those who have such a big problem with it as much as you have are very much a minority in this game, and furthermore you can quickly flick through the msq or use a skip potion. It's not as if you are forced to watch every scrap of lore very slowly like in msq roulette. And unless you make alts the msq only needs to be done once.

As for those saying "but I have seen the msq make players quit" yea, I have too. But I also saw the lvling experience in WoW, BDO, STO, ESO and GW2 make people quit.

Should any of these games make major changes to the lvling experience in them because a handful of players didn't like it? No, of course not. It's impossible to please everyone. The best you can do is please your target audience, and SE are doing a good job at that as far as the msq is concerned. There is some serious hype for the ShB msq. Far more than there was for SB. And the hype is there because those players know what happened in the story up to that point.



Yea WoW's lvling experience changed over time. The things you had to do didn't really change, but the degree of challenge and time investment did. I understand trimming the time investment due to the amount of lvls, but there was no need to let the old content become so deteriorated that mobs would fall over if you so much as sneeze in their general direction. I saw this make a lot of new players quit. They were bored.

the only thing that would change for you, in my version, is there would be an npc that you could talk to to unlock all content if you choose. Are you saying inspite of loving the msq so much, you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to? interesting

[Penthea]

the only thing that would change for you, in my version, is there would be an npc that you could talk to to unlock all content if you choose.

So basically you want SE to present two versions of the game to players? Yea good luck convincing them that this is worth their time and money when the majority of the playerbase are fine with the msq being central to the game.

Really if your solution is to have another version of the game...maybe you should just play another game seeing as the current version of this one clearly isn't what you want.

Are you saying inspite of loving the msq so much, you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to? interesting

Where are you getting that from? Nowhere did I say I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to. I even said to you several pages ago that I often reread and rewatch the msq on my alts on parts I have forgotten or parts I recall enjoying. Are you now resorting to putting words into my mouth to support your argument? Lol?

EDIT: it occurs to me you perhaps say this under assumption of how I would feel about the msq under your proposed version of FFXIV. I would still do it if the experience was identical to how it is now.

That being said I'm not sure if I could continue playing if SE decided to step in the direction of granting players the option to skip so much content for free. I don't particularly want to play a game in which the devs dramatically cut down on what you must do to earn something. Blizzard did that to WoW and replaced a lot of hard work with rng...and well look at how far down the mighty king has fallen.

[Physic]

So basically you want SE to present two versions of the game to players? Yea good luck convincing them that this is worth their time and money when the majority of the playerbase are fine with the msq being central to the game.

Really if your solution is to have another version of the game...maybe you should just play another game seeing as the current version of this one clearly isn't what you want.



Where are you getting that from? Nowhere did I say I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to. I even said to you several pages ago that I often reread and rewatch the msq on my alts on parts I have forgotten or parts I recall enjoying. Are you now resorting to putting words into my mouth to support your argument? Lol?

EDIT: it occurs to me you perhaps say this under assumption of how I would feel about the msq under your proposed version of FFXIV. I would still do it if the experience was identical to how it is now.

That being said I'm not sure if I could continue playing if SE decided to step in the direction of granting players the option to skip so much content for free. I don't particularly want to play a game in which the devs dramatically cut down on what you must do to earn something. Blizzard did that to WoW and replaced a lot of hard work with rng...and well look at how far down the mighty king has fallen.

it wouldnt require making another version of the game, its already there, its just who gets access to it. But as you say in the edit, its more about the hypothetical situation.

Speaking for myself, part of loving/enjoying the story is knowing that it is an integral part of the game. Making it optional content would trivialize it, and by changing the structure of the game in such a way, could indeed make me lose (at least some if not all) interest in the story in the same way I sometimes have little interest in doing side quests simply for the story. In fact, as I've said in the past, it really won't be MSQ, just a long side quest at that point.

this is interesting, i personally do main story in most games i play regardless of the requirements, but you are saying you only do it if its required. I do side story optionally, based on its rewards, or how compelling it is, or how burnt out i am, in the case of ffxiv main story usually uses up most of my willingness to quest.

Well said. Part of why I fell out of love with WoW was the fact that they lost their focus on the journey being just as important as the destination. It's all about getting to max level as fast as you can and grinding content that makes Eureka look like a masterpiece. So while I understand why people may want to be able to skip through the story, I don't necessarily approve. People can use jump potions and story skips and that is their prerogative, but they are losing out on the part that matters: the journey.

while i may prefer most people having some concept of the story, the reality is, them playing story is not core to my enjoyment, and the ship already sailed, 40% of the people i interact with already ignore story, so really the only difference would be, they wouldnt be burning out/prevented from content. It always slightly irks me when they have no idea who raubhan is, or the echo, but that ship has already sailed, its not worth losing these type of players for something that is not how they will spend most of their time in the long run.


Ideally, i think if the story mostly occured more naturally, some might get drawn in, but i have no illusions they would somehow make huge changes to the way story is presented. They probably couldnt do as much story if it was more incorporated.


At the end of the day my goal, is to have the content be accessible for many types of players, its not about how i play, (which is mostly completing story)

also ARR is definitely not the best foot forward story wise, but thats a different issue

[linay]

the only thing that would change for you, in my version, is there would be an npc that you could talk to to unlock all content if you choose. Are you saying inspite of loving the msq so much, you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to? interesting

Speaking for myself, part of loving/enjoying the story is knowing that it is an integral part of the game. Making it optional content would trivialize it, and by changing the structure of the game in such a way, could indeed make me lose (at least some if not all) interest in the story in the same way I sometimes have little interest in doing side quests simply for the story. In fact, as I've said in the past, it really won't be MSQ, just a long side quest at that point.

[Vahlnir]

Speaking for myself, part of loving/enjoying the story is knowing that it is an integral part of the game. Making it optional content would trivialize it, and by changing the structure of the game in such a way, could indeed make me lose (at least some if not all) interest in the story in the same way I sometimes have little interest in doing side quests simply for the story. In fact, as I've said in the past, it really won't be MSQ, just a long side quest at that point.

Well said. Part of why I fell out of love with WoW was the fact that they lost their focus on the journey being just as important as the destination. It's all about getting to max level as fast as you can and grinding content that makes Eureka look like a masterpiece. So while I understand why people may want to be able to skip through the story, I don't necessarily approve. People can use jump potions and story skips and that is their prerogative, but they are losing out on the part that matters: the journey.