New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Awha]

Please tell me how a lvl 20 character would be able to do lvl 30+ dungeons synced with players of similar lvl. I'll say it again; WoW doesn't have a msq but it doesn't automatically mean all the content is unlocked or doable at low lvl. .

They can simply make the content level gated, the quest tracker will still exist so if people want to enjoy the story they can simply follow the quest tracker but at the end of the day they will be able to do the story at their own pace and not the pace the game dictates.

Edit I do understand that they need to make money and know that these changes prob will not happen because of that, but it is interesting none the less.

[Barraind]

Who goes into the game laser-focusing on the endgame without doing research about it first?

Things I ask about MMO's:

Is the crafting system both robust and of actual quality?

Are there raids?

Are the endgame dungeons worth running a lot?



Things I've never had to ask before 14:

Will I be stuck following a linear path that HEAVILY gates me regardless of character/class level (you can be into your mid 60's before you finish the 100 sins of squeenix in ARR) to the point where I cannot experience content unless I spend more than the base game costs to get to the part of the game I like playing?

These people that skip all the MSQ are the same people that complain there isn’t enough content in the game

Funny, because the MSQ ACTIVELY PREVENTS YOU FROM ACCESSING CONTENT.

As in, to access actual content (dungeons, trials, raids, alliance quests, daily quests) you have to get through certain parts of the MSQ or you are completely locked out of those systems regardless of character level. Level 61 and in full stormblood gear but still havent finished a certain part of MSQ? Sorry, you dont have access to reputation farming, alliance raids, 8 man raids, extreme trials, the hunt system, the squadron system, player housing, something im certain im forgetting, and probably feel like theres not enough content in the game.

[Melichoir]

Funny, because the MSQ ACTIVELY PREVENTS YOU FROM ACCESSING CONTENT.

As in, to access actual content (dungeons, trials, raids, alliance quests, daily quests) you have to get through certain parts of the MSQ or you are completely locked out of those systems regardless of character level. Level 61 and in full stormblood gear but still havent finished a certain part of MSQ? Sorry, you dont have access to reputation farming, alliance raids, 8 man raids, extreme trials, the hunt system, the squadron system, player housing, something im certain im forgetting, and probably feel like theres not enough content in the game.

Guess what. MSQ is content. The class you play is content, the quests you take, the places you go. Its all content. Youre not being prevented from content in the sense the MSQ is stripping you from it, but youre being gated. Thats an important distinction because all it means is you cant just have your run of any content. You actually need to do things to access stuff other than just be a high enough level. You need to put in effort and investment. And people tend to forget that MSQ is important because its the central point of FFXIV. The whole game is built around it. FFXIV is a very plot centric mmo that isnt set up in 'episodes'. You want episodic, play WoW. There is a large over arching story, but the way the xpacs and what not operate, you can jump in mid XPac and be up to speed with current events going on in the world because the game doesnt focus to heavily on that overall narrative. It allows you to skip over content. Because you arent important individually. The story just behaves that if you didnt do it, someone else did. Cause the formula for their content is Baddy comes along, horde or alliance encounter it, stuff happens, baddie is resolved with some overarching lore getting slightly pushed forward. But your character specifically isnt tied into that over arching lore unless its the only character you ever make. The game makes it very clear that you are one of many heroes of the horde/alliance, where the bigger plot points are generally resolved by heroes like Thrall or Jaina and youre there to help them. Youre a hero, not the hero.

That isnt the case with FFXIV. There are other adventures, but you are, more or less, the warrior of light (if not one of the very very few WoLs.) Youre actions directly impact the overarching narrative. Its about you, the player. So it makes perfect sense you cant just jump into a dungeon cause your level is high enough.

This isnt even a new concept. In RPGs and MMOs generally, level isnt the only requirement for access to certain content. Where people are getting hosed up over is they think they should have access because of their level rather than realizing that the driving force behind access to certain content is questing. Can we stream line some of that? Possibly. Some of the quests in ARR are a bit overly complex. It would take effort on SEs part to rewrite those quest lines to be more streamlined. Thats a possible solution. But I think this whole notion of "THE MSQ PREVENTS CONTENT ACCESS" comes from a misunderstanding of FFXIV as a whole and what is defined as content. Does it gate people? Sure. Is it preventing access? No, not in the sense that is being argued typically.

[Iscah]

They already confirmed they are going to make some of the ARR MSQ fetch quests into side quests while keeping the main story intact, they said this will probably happen around patch 5.1.

Setting ARR aside bc both sides can agree that its a mess that needs to be worked (not to mention devs have mentioned they are in the process of fixing it)

Do we have a source for this?

As much as the quests could definitely use some streamlining, it's a more intricate process than just cutting out every 'tedious' quest and making it a sidequest. A lot of them move the plot forward - painfully slowly perhaps, but they still need to happen at that point in the story.

No, you don't need to sniff the chocobo, but you do need to get the Doman refugees onto that cart and traveling to Ul'dah. You can't remove that quest, you have to rewrite it to alter the point-by-point objectives.

Going through the entire plot like that would be quite an intensive process.

[Penthea]

Guess what. MSQ is content. The class you play is content, the quests you take, the places you go. Its all content. Youre not being prevented from content

A lot of players tend to think "content I don't want to do doesn't count as content". This is certainly the case for some who have posted in this thread. This reminds me of players who sometimes complain that this game has no content, and then you have a look at what classes they have played and more than half aren't even unlocked. After some posts asking questions it turns out they never tried to do floor 100+ of POTD, they don't do maps, they don't do the gold saucer, they don't craft, they don't do beast tribes...they don't do a lot. The cherry on top is when their gear isn't even up to date enough to do the latest patch content.

You need to put in effort and investment. And people tend to forget that MSQ is important because its the central point of FFXIV. The whole game is built around it. FFXIV is a very plot centric mmo that isnt set up in 'episodes'. You want episodic, play WoW.

I reread some of the posts at the beginning of this thread, found some I missed and it turns out OP is actually a WoW refugee. That kind of explains a lot. In that game the real content doesn't start until you're close to max lvl. Everything before then is often seen as little other than an irrelevant road to be rushed through. And frankly because it is. The old content is most times stupidly easy to do so it's boring, and it rarely unlocks something else upon completion aside from a maybe a mostly identical harder mode version of the same dungeon. Lvling quests have even less relevance. The lvling content in WoW serves as little other than a way to gain xp fast so you can sprint to the end because the game doesn't really start until you're very close to max lvl.

I gather OP came to this game expecting it to be very similar here; that the game doesn't really start until you're 60+. But this isn't the case in FFXIV. Due to how roulettes and lvl sync work, you can play with max lvl players from the first fate you do and the first instance you queue for. And due to how everything is so closely tied to the msq you won't understand a damn thing that is going on in SB if you don't follow what happened in ARR and HW. Furthermore FFXIV has an incredible amount of side content compared to WoW, that has remained relevant even after other expansions are released, and these are unlocked as players progress through the msq.

FFXIV has a very different progression design and route. OP probably came to the game with certain expectations and doesn't seem to have realised that not all can or will be met. No one has to like the msq. But everyone needs to accept that it's there. The entire game is interwoven in it through lore and mechanics, and the vast majority of players are either okay with it or love it. The msq's role in the game won't change. Either find a way to deal with it, or play something else. Hoping for the most central element of the game to have its relevance removed is folly.

Because you arent important individually. The story just behaves that if you didnt do it, someone else did. The game makes it very clear that you are one of many heroes of the horde/alliance, where the bigger plot points are generally resolved by heroes like Thrall or Jaina and youre there to help them. Youre a hero, not the hero.

That isnt the case with FFXIV. There are other adventures, but you are, more or less, the warrior of light (if not one of the very very few WoLs.) Youre actions directly impact the overarching narrative. Its about you, the player. So it makes perfect sense you cant just jump into a dungeon cause your level is high enough.

I have some ex-WoW player friends who were not keen on the msq in the beginning, but when they understood that their character is the central point of the whole story for the game they began to warm up to it. Now they're ultra hype for any new msq content. Some of them didn't have any interest in it until much later in the game and ended up making alts so they could understand all the events that lead up to the point when they became intrigued. And a few never got interested in the story, but they just skip through the dialogue and cutscenes without complaint, because they understand the msq's role in the game and accept it.

[Melichoir]

snipped

Pretty much spot on. As you point out, WoW refugees will have a bit of a learning curve to adapt to this game. The experience in wow after BC was everything you do up to the current xpac is just unimportant. See that guy, go see what he wants, gather 10 zebra hooves, turn it in. Here's a pat on the back, now go find another dude who wants you to collect some twigs. Good job. That's the leveling experience pretty much until the most recent xpac. You have very little to no impact on anything that goes on in the world. Where as in FFXIV, while you still have those kind of simple 'fetch' quests, you start impacting the world and story around you very quickly. You gain fame, people start recognizing you for the MSQ. Youre not an ambiguous hero in the horde or alliance that passes through an area and maybe does some things, but you're the WoL.


Dont get me wrong though, there are advantages and disadvantages to this set up. The advantages is you're more central and thus more invested in the game and story. But you cant 'skip' past parts of the story. It all builds off of previous parts of the story. WoW is more of these small vignettes of events. You can skip past parts because you dont impact things that deeply. Youre not as central to the struggle of the horde/alliance. So if you skip past Northred or Pandaria, thats fine. Someone else resolved those plot points. You werent there for those battles (unless you go back and do those quests). The game compartmentalizes and doesnt refer to specifics of what happened because you werent there.

This is the distinction people need to understand with FFXIV. Its a particular experience that is story centric. So skipping older content doesnt work as well here as it does in things like WoW, and thats fine. This shouldnt be a WoW clone in that regards. I like this structure, and would be disappointed if SE changed it so the MSQ didnt matter.

Some streamlining could be done with ARR 2.1-2.55, sure, but people should still play through it and not be handed a free pass.