New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Shougun]

It's a matter of opinion.

For example I found WoW boring, you begin, get no story to do, then do some random quest. Not my thing. While it was for some friends. Dungeoning right away for their way.

On the other ends. Some of those friends couldn't care less about the story so went back to WoW or other game. While some others stayed because they liked a MMO that have a story to do. And the fact that the content is tied to MSQ making it relevent.


Edit : yes I didn't played WoW much, because as I said earlier found it boring, it's not my type of game.

I think it depends on the race you started as too, because some of them started a bit more aimless than others. Having tried all of them some don't start with "some random quest", but still get you in on the action very quickly (tried all pre-panda at least).

I know its just an opinion but I would argue that WoW starts better (depending on race you pick at least) on nearly all fronts except perhaps presentation (graphics and such). Some start you out with lore, combat, and engaging unique mechanics very early and at a great pace. So I mean to say even at your own variables of what is subjectively good or bad I imagine one of WoW's start would take back that impression you have. Keeping in mind I'm talking like the first few hours of the game, this thread is clearly talking about way more than the first few hours so I just wanted to be clear on what part I was focusing on when saying I think we might be able to argue on "starting" quality. I'm here because imo FFXIV is superior in the end, but I'd very quickly change (add) at least one of FFXIV's start for something more akin to WoW's if given the opportunity to implement one like it.

Also there was something really special about the experience of "going to the big city". Where your world just expands and expands for a while. First time I get to that "reveal" moment in most of the race storylines with the fresh music and far grander civilizations was like.. "awww yussssssss".

[Jimmymagic]

Yeah I always discredit anything that begins with "I have a friend/SO/mom/favorite-serial-killer who ..." posts...

"Person-Up" and openly speak for yourself.

This is happens a lot on the forums.

[Sciwolf]

New players should take the time to learn the basics indtead of paying real money to skip it.

So what if they dont start the expansion "on time?" They will progress through the game naturally while learning the use of each ability and testing out in low level dungeons.

Compare that to a new player who just skipped everything and has no idea how to play, and of course, plays tank or healer because QQ queue times.

[Squig]

Don't be ridiculous. If you know exactly what you should be doing and where you should be going at every instant during the MSQ, getting into 4.x content while skipping *all* cutscenes takes upwards of 100 hours. I hate seeing new users using skip potions but there's no denying that there is an absolutely ridiculous entry barrier for newbies getting into the game. *All* endgame content is gated behind the completion of the MSQ which, if you started with 2.0 or even 3.0 (as I did) it was manageable and the plot was delivered going forward in patches. The longer the game goes, the worse that barrier will get and there needs to be some kind of fix before long.

The early game content is garbage in this game because the expectation is that you'll either have the MSQ or knowledge of the game + the Armoury bonus to fasttrack you through it. For new players with little interest in the MSQ, sure you could ask why play a story-driven game if you have no interest in the game but there are people drawn to the other aspects. It's like a TV show that only gets good, like, halfway through. It's no problem if you were watching and got hooked from the start but if you're just in it for the ending, it's a total slog.

Maybe some kind of story squish or not gating future content would make it more tolerable, I honestly have no clue.

[Melichoir]

Is there only one right way to do a given thing? What is wrong with skipping chapters in a book? Why would skipping chapters make the book not worth reading? What do books have to do with an interactive medium like FF14? People have different reasons for playing a game and they're all valid. Unless people skipping the story hurts other players in some way, I don't see why people should care about it.

Because the point of the chapters in a book is that its a series of events and progress. From a purely artistic and creative medium, slow chapters have to exist with high action ones to create a rhythm and flow which ultimately makes the overall quality better. If you're only getting high action all the time, it'll wear down on you. This is basic creativity 101. You find this philosophy in virtually all mediums - food, books, movies, music, cartoons, comics, and yes games. So some chapters are gonna be slower, and yes there is a little filler at times (which can probably be axed). But just skipping ahead in cause "oh this is boring" demonstrates that the consideration isn't the story, but rather just the punchline. Imagine reading Harry potter, but instead of reading the books, you read the first few pages of book 1, and the last few pages of book 7. You skipped everything in between cause 'oh it was boring'. At that point, why did you even read it. You weren't concerned with the journey the character makes, or the world that was crafted. It just gets summarized into a few pages.

Perhaps this is my own personal bugbear and bias, but from my observations, people who skip over all the content cause 'it's so boring' are the same people who weeks later complain about how come there's nothing to do. Game offers you a rich journey, and you pressed fast forward on it and are dissatisfied that there's nothing left.

This is my own rant, but my only gripe with story skip is that it's implemented as a pay for option. Why do you have to pay to get around a less enjoyable portion of the game that you already payed for? It just seems bizarre to me. It may also contribute to bad game design overall. If a developer can just put out mediocre content and then ask for money when people want to avoid that content, is that good? Of course people are free to answer that question themselves, but I'll never pay for any kind of skip despite finding it very handy in a game like FF14.

You're viewing this in the wrong light on three parts:

1) From a purely business standpoint, its in SE's interest for you to play out the MSQ because it means longer sub times, either through time spent or sheer interest. So of course they're not going to just be like "Here, skip all this" without some level of compensation.
2) For game health, you want to discourage newer players from just skipping right to the end. Like it or not, the MSQ still forces players to learn certain aspects of the game. This cuts down more on getting people in higher level content that don't know how to play the game.
3) You literally paid for content and then are saying "I don't want it, allow me to skip it for free." That's not how the game was set up. Name me a single player game that says "If you don't like this, just skip it all together!" that hasn't been mocked for that kind of feature.

If that's the case why ask for any QoL at all? I don't think requesting a way around the story for new players in unreasonable at all. It might help them maintain interest in the game which is ultimately good for everyone playing.

Theres a difference in QoLs. A QoL with streamlining some of the games mechanics is one thing. If you had to jump through 20 menus just to adjust the volume, that could use a QoL change. And not all 'QoL' changes are healthy for a game. Use wow for an example. When they implemented that you could queue for dungeons anywhere, it drastically hurt the world map. People just sat in town at that point waiting for queue times. It made things more convenient, yes, but hurt the game in other ways.

The nuance, I suppose, is maybe trim down some of the MSQ in ARR in 2.1-2.55. As I said, there is some filler, and some of that can be abbreviated a little. But I think just skipping the MSQ all together for free for new players ends up hurting the game by hurting retention. If you cant get people interested in FFXIV with ARR, then they're a lot less likely to stick around long term as is. The story becomes secondary to game play that already isn't really unique. And when you don't have to work for anything, don't have to invest, you don't care if you give it up.

[LyraKuroneko]

Maybe some kind of story squish or not gating future content would make it more tolerable, I honestly have no clue.

Having the story on one side and the dungeons on another would feel really weird to me.

It's about 50/50 for now and I hope it stays like that.

[yukiiyuki]

Long story short, if your friend just want to play with you and don't care much about the story - go play another mmo with him, better give those dirty money to another company, so we can have more limited stuff and server issues.

[Melichoir]

Don't be ridiculous. If you know exactly what you should be doing and where you should be going at every instant during the MSQ, getting into 4.x content while skipping *all* cutscenes takes upwards of 100 hours. I hate seeing new users using skip potions but there's no denying that there is an absolutely ridiculous entry barrier for newbies getting into the game. *All* endgame content is gated behind the completion of the MSQ which, if you started with 2.0 or even 3.0 (as I did) it was manageable and the plot was delivered going forward in patches. The longer the game goes, the worse that barrier will get and there needs to be some kind of fix before long.

The early game content is garbage in this game because the expectation is that you'll either have the MSQ or knowledge of the game + the Armoury bonus to fasttrack you through it. For new players with little interest in the MSQ, sure you could ask why play a story-driven game if you have no interest in the game but there are people drawn to the other aspects. It's like a TV show that only gets good, like, halfway through. It's no problem if you were watching and got hooked from the start but if you're just in it for the ending, it's a total slog.

Maybe some kind of story squish or not gating future content would make it more tolerable, I honestly have no clue.

My understanding is someone speed ran from lvl 1 - clearing 04S (with 340 gear) in 4.5 days of playtime. Granted there's huge grains of salt to be considered like this isn't a new player, they had help, probably crafted gear, etc etc.

However, that is still fairly quick. I would hazard getting someone who's new to the game and to 4.0 and NOT having to worry about Savage and the like could probably be done within 6 or 7 days playtime reasonably(and I think I am being generous in that estimation) if they skip everything and have people speeding them through dungeons. That would be....168 Hours worth of play time. If you played ONLY a modest 2 hours a day, that's 3 months of play time. For an MMO, that is beans. I would hazard, btw, most people who do MMOs play averagely 4 Hours a day when things are relevant. So that cuts down the time spent to six weeks or so. Again, on an MMO, six weeks isn't long. That's shorter than a patch cycle. If you're in it for the story and don't want to skip, then yeah, it'll be longer but that becomes a moot point as you would be enjoying the content as is.

Chances are, yeah, you'll see an MSQ squish eventually. Probably by 6.0. It will likely be part of any new ARR sales going out to have one MSQ skip potion and class potion for new players because at that point the MSQ might be so daunting that it's more financially sound to have people skip that content, particularly since new game + will exist.

[Sciwolf]

So why rush to "catch up"? Why not play the game and enjoy it as it is? Eventually they will reach the latest parts of the game anyway. New content is not more "relevant" than old content, just newer.

The idea that you need to reach the newest parts of the game as soon as they are released - that is the problem.

This is what i never understood. Some people feel that in order to enjoy the game you HAVE to be involved in the latest content. Now most of the time, its because they have already sank hundreds of hours into the game and have experienced.

But if youre new and already want to skip everything then why even bother playing?

[Vercinotrix]

People shouldn't come to this game expecting to be caught up with people who've been playing for years. I get that it kind of sucks and all, but really FFXIV is an entire game. 1-50 and 50-60 are only really slogs if you're solely looking to play this game at level cap. People need to stop bringing the mentality of the only game is end game with them when they start, I have to keep reminding my friends who just started to be patient and relax.

I guess if you really don't care about story or don't really like level progression RPGs it can be unbearable, but really I think people need a mentality/attitude change than the game needs to change to accommodate that.