New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Shougun]

So to clarify things, what you guys are asking for is either free jump potions or some free option in game to flag the MSQ as complete for dungeon/trial/raid content purposes?

If you're talking to me then no because I don't think the potion puts enough burs into the beginning, but some may see what I want as a potion with a lot of extra things added to it I guess. The story part of the new start would be complete-able by us all without any sort of one off thing (quest rewards related to the /intro/ story included), but the "potion part" (level/gear/gil) would be limited to once free (part of some expansions that come with these new start quest chains).

So in other words am I asking for specifically a free skip potion - no, but something that has an element of that.. sort of yes. Like if I was asking for a mini van and you bring me a motorcycle. Yes I wanted a vehicle but there is still quite an important distinction, I think lol. I wanted more to be carried in that event than just a potion alone will do, as I think alone I have concerns but with some extra 'passengers'.. I think its okay.

So how about these two conditions as proposal for a compromise,

1. by default MSQ stays as it is, by default one needs to go through the MSQ and finish the final MSQ trial to get to end game content, if a player does not want this they have an option described in number 2.

2. There is an NPC that can be talked to that would allow the MSQ to be marked as completed for purposes of unlocking content, the player will have to go through a couple warning screens saying this option will impede their enjoyment of the story in certain quests. This option would also allow them to go through the MSQ at their own pace but like I said some of the cut scenes from endgame content might spoil the story if they aren't skipping cut scenes/

Would this be a fair compromise?

1. Yes, I like the MSQ too (that each dungeon and content piece has something important about it), so I don't want to see it blended up. So far so great.

2. That's a generous change. I was hoping for a bit more bur/traction (allowing a new different intro of around ~2 hours + put you at the beginning of an expansion) but for people who are just not into it at all that'd be probably the favorite option lol (just talk to an NPC and be like "yes sir, I did it.. totes" *crosses fingers* lol), so you'd certainly calm a number of people with that.

Also.. Otter where :O..? They brought a lot of levity .

In my FC

Adorable! Thanks, my piggy passed recently so the cuteness is nice.

[SerLuke]

Also.. Otter where :O..? They brought a lot of levity .

In my FC

[SerLuke]

Just because people ask for something doesnt mean its healthy for hte game. I personally think making the entire MSQ optional (a glorified side quest) would end up hurting the game as over time this would be the go to option for most players, and not a side option for the few who dont care.

I don’t disagree I’m just saying if something like this did happen I would prefer it happen in a way where the MSQ experience would be intact while others can essentially have a glorified skip potion.

[Melichoir]

I don’t disagree I’m just saying if something like this did happen I would prefer it happen in a way where the MSQ experience would be intact while others can essentially have a glorified skip potion.

The problem utlimately still becomes the same issue: If you introduce this option, it will (over time) become standard practice among starting players and will be actively encouraged by older players to do so. Let me point this out, A lot of people migrate here and start FFXIV based on word of mouth by friends (either online or RL). Rather than having veteran players 'help' out newer players through dungeons and encouraging them to progress, theyll be told "Just skip MSQ. Its all story, and hurry to max level so we can play together." The misguided notion here would be that you cant play together with a lower level player. Yes the MSQ is solo, but the game isnt. You can run dungeons with them, encourage them to explore the game, help them secure an FC and build a community. That gets thrown out the window with an MSQ skip because then its "Dont enjoy teh story,just hurry up to max level so we can play together. Ill just speed you through POTD to max your level."

This is why I dont want to change things, or at the least, if you want to skip it, there should be a deterrent to it. The option is available currently. It is there. But its not cheap, so only the most determined to skip and rush will do so. This prevents it from being standard practice and keeps the core of the game still focused on MSQ and not end content.

[Physic]

The problem utlimately still becomes the same issue: If you introduce this option, it will (over time) become standard practice among starting players and will be actively encouraged by older players to do so. Let me point this out, A lot of people migrate here and start FFXIV based on word of mouth by friends (either online or RL). Rather than having veteran players 'help' out newer players through dungeons and encouraging them to progress, theyll be told "Just skip MSQ. Its all story, and hurry to max level so we can play together." The misguided notion here would be that you cant play together with a lower level player. Yes the MSQ is solo, but the game isnt. You can run dungeons with them, encourage them to explore the game, help them secure an FC and build a community. That gets thrown out the window with an MSQ skip because then its "Dont enjoy teh story,just hurry up to max level so we can play together. Ill just speed you through POTD to max your level."

This is why I dont want to change things, or at the least, if you want to skip it, there should be a deterrent to it. The option is available currently. It is there. But its not cheap, so only the most determined to skip and rush will do so. This prevents it from being standard practice and keeps the core of the game still focused on MSQ and not end content.

the core of the game is not focused on msq. You do msq a lot when you start, and rarely after that. People who play this game consistently tend to spend most of their leveling jobs, gear hunting, progression, dungeons/raids and glamour.

whether msq is locked or not, friends will need to help them through dungeons, as thats where most gear/exp is.


running dungeons and doing other things with new players doesnt make sense, because msq is the limiter on progress. They beat satasha and get their gear, cool, lets try the next dungeon! oh, well you have to do your msq first. The more they play with you, the more overlevel they become, the more msq becomes the only thing they should do. Oh man, i'm level 30, but im level 20 msq, you can only go to level 19 dungeons, no chocobo, no grand company, cant do your job quest.

it just doesnt actually line up, if you ever play with a newbie, you end up telling them just do msq. The solo activity shouldnt be gating group play as much as it does. It causes people to rush it more.

If msq is satisfying a player, they will do it, as long as it gives exp, and items.

[GrindShack]

A long while back, about hmm lets see 2009 maybe, while playing FFXI, we had a player in our LS named Strawberry, she was the GF of another member. She didn't like the leveling scene in the game, thus her BF lV'd her Character up by dual boxing her toon. once she was lv 75 (Max lv on FFXI forever) she decided that she wanted to start raiding with us. Strawberry was playing a WHM/SMN, and I use the term playing loosely as she never actually played before. Now this Max LV noob is our healer in endgame content.... After numerous TPK's, she in effect created a server wide inside joke. People who were shit, just couldn't learn their jobs, or bought accounts, would be referred to as a Strawberry. This is what I think about anyone who skips Story or buys a level 60 off the market. you are a Strawberry through and through.

TLDR Don't be a Strawberry

[Alucard135]

A long while back, about hmm lets see 2009 maybe, while playing FFXI, we had a player in our LS named Strawberry, she was the GF of another member. She didn't like the leveling scene in the game, thus her BF lV'd her Character up by dual boxing her toon. once she was lv 75 (Max lv on FFXI forever) she decided that she wanted to start raiding with us. Strawberry was playing a WHM/SMN, and I use the term playing loosely as she never actually played before. Now this Max LV noob is our healer in endgame content.... After numerous TPK's, she in effect created a server wide inside joke. People who were shit, just couldn't learn their jobs, or bought accounts, would be referred to as a Strawberry. This is what I think about anyone who skips Story or buys a level 60 off the market. you are a Strawberry through and through.

TLDR Don't be a Strawberry

I wouldn't say skipping MSQ would make someone a terrible player, since it doesn't level you up at all. A level boost on the other hand is a different story. There are already Strawberries in level 70 content and they expect mentors to to cover up for them.

[GrindShack]

I wouldn't say skipping MSQ would make someone a terrible player, since it doesn't level you up at all. A level boost on the other hand is a different story. There are already Strawberries in level 70 content and they expect mentors to to cover up for them.

My issue with story skip is not necessarily that a player is or can be bad because of it, it is that they actually accomplished nothing on their own.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Im sorry but I'm still reading this as MSQ being an insurmountable task. Or like, an unfair trial to start a game at the begining. That's just... The game is not going to change just because players decided to piss off for a few expansions. Whoever commented about game pacing is right on the money. I mean, what next? Let's take out Grand Companies because it blocks access to housing and the one companion we get. Unfair to have to do stuff to unlock stuff. Buuu.

[Melichoir]

Instead of advocating for making it optional, why not advocate for streamlining. Moving some MSQ quests (particularly in 2.1-2.55) to side quests is probably the best option. Reason I say this is it leaves all that content in game, but you no longer have to complete that specific facet. Cause in each xpac and the base, there are some MSQ quests which are definitely more flavor and doesnt drive the actual plot forward all that much. Theyre more like side events that occur inbetween major events. Stream lining like this would be a viable option if done carefully. MSQ is still there, you still have to complete it, though its not as long and more streamlined, and the moved quests still exist if you want to experience that content. It's a bit of both sides, MSQ remains in tact broadly, and newer players dont have as much to go through. its a decent compromise.