New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Jimmymagic]

Yeah I always discredit anything that begins with "I have a friend/SO/mom/favorite-serial-killer who ..." posts...

"Person-Up" and openly speak for yourself.

This is happens a lot on the forums.

[Makeda]

Yeah I always discredit anything that begins with "I have a friend/SO/mom/favorite-serial-killer who ..." posts...

"Person-Up" and openly speak for yourself.

This is happens a lot on the forums.

Agreed. And it's not even new to here, MMOs, or even the internet. But it's a very poor method of making a point regardless. It shows a lack of faith in one's own argument to invent the 'Friend' that has a problem on who's behalf you must suddenly speak out...

[DumdogsWorld]

Agreed. And it's not even new to here, MMOs, or even the internet. But it's a very poor method of making a point regardless. It shows a lack of faith in one's own argument to invent the 'Friend' that has a problem on who's behalf you must suddenly speak out...

Depends on if the friend is real or fake. Sometimes the person is actually real and they're being used as an example to further a point. You can usually tell whether or not the friend is a bluff, though.

[RicaRuin]

Is it really that important for your friend to be caught up on Shadowbringers launch, or could he just chip away at the content until he's reached it? Eventually, you could play together.

Or maybe roll an Alt and relive the journey with him? Not many more ideas beside that (or a skip). Can't wait until I have a friend of mine join the game later this month for the same problem...

[DBriggs304]

As said earlier, they are pretty much fixing this in Shadowbringers to experience the MSQ after jumps.

[Nighthawky2010]

As said earlier, they are pretty much fixing this in Shadowbringers to experience the MSQ after jumps.

Exactly.

Especially with Shadowbringers 2 months away, If jump potions are used just use NEW GAME +

You use either both jump potions or one of them, either their way NEW GAME + will be the logically solution to re-doing old content that was skipped.

[SturmChurro]

Exactly.

Especially with Shadowbringers 2 months away, If jump potions are used just use NEW GAME +

You use either both jump potions or one of them, either their way NEW GAME + will be the logically solution to re-doing old content that was skipped.

It is a lazy position to take, but it will relieve some of it. Not enough, but good enough, at least.

In WoW, you can only boost one character with a boost and not to max level though, while the story skip counts for all classes on this character in FFXIV. With SE not really encouraging making alts ad keeping this game heavily story-focused it's understandable that you'd need to pay more for the story skip. And there's a MUCH larger focus on endgame in WoW.

Also, I don't quite get the problem. Shadowbringers is still months] away.
You said that he returned from ARR content. You get to 50 fairly fast, even faster if you play as tank or healer and have short dungeons queues. If the queue is really long and he needs to a dungeon to progress with the MSQ, PF is always an option if no friends are online to help him. Had plenty of people help me out during my ARR Relic quest with the 50s dungeons, because the DF was empty af and I had 40min+ queue times as a healer but takes like 4-6min for a 70.
The ARR to HW transition is a bit tiresome and can take several evenings. But if reaching 70 & finishing MSQ as fast as possible without buying a story skip is his focus, then he can always skip all the cutscenes, already saving him tons of time and enjoy it later via new game+. Even if he can't play that much, he could probably get from 1 to 70 in time without excessive cut scene skipping.

And of course catching up takes a bit of time. So starting a few month before a new expansion obviously means, you've already missed most content when it was relevant but he's a far cry from "not reaching endgame in time". And even if he reaches max level shortly AFTER Shadowbringers hits, unless he is in a rush for server firsts, it won't matter. Queue times are a nightmare if you are ahead of the curb with the MSQ, nothing I would recommend.
And wether he does old max level content synced now or later doesn't make much of a difference. Sure, some classes will get reworked, but he's already long past the point of "playing it as it once was".

But honestly... with the heavy focus on story, world building etc, everything from 1 to 70 is what he paid for.
I fail to see why someone would rush through what is and always has been one of the major selling points for a game (on his first char no less) to get to endgame a few month before a new expansion hits.
The reason for implementing new game+ was largely the players wanted to replay the MSQ because they enjoyed it. Because they'd rather spent more time leveling a new class through MSQ again then spamming PotD/HoH. But he thinks of it as slog and a waste of time.
I can't help but think that maybe he should reconsider why he is playing FFXIV of all things when it was never a secret where the focus lies.

The context of this thread, as I have stated many times, is broadly for new/returning players, and the problem with the addition of more and more expansions. "Broadly". As stated in the title "Impending expansions". He was just a catalyst for my thinking, and I have seen other players get overwhelmed and give up. The elitists will say good, however, new players turning away is never a good thing.

[Kalise]

To actually reach relevant content he has to go through a backlog of slog

Since when is ARR-SB story irrelevant?

I personally found it very relevant. As it was fun to go through and get the story.

Since, part of what FFXIV does well is that unlike other MMO's, it makes the JOURNEY important not just the destination.

I have a feeling he never will actually reach the content that he has paid for

Did your friend not pay for ARR? For HW? For SB?

Also, while the end of ARR story certainly feels like it takes forever to get through (God damn it Minfilia!) it will not take two years to actually get through to current content (Which is how long Shadowbringers will last for).

Heck, it's entirely possible that your friend can get through all of the MSQ from level 1 to the end of Stormblood before Shadowbringers actually arrives in 3 months time... Especially if he has a friend to help him get through MSQ required duties without obscene DPS queues...

I have a feeling a lot of new players have the same point of view, and will also never likely reach content in time (without paying for a skip) to actually play the new expansion.

If Stormblood is anything to go by...

Trust me, it's favourable if new players don't get to experience Eureka grinds because they're too busy playing through the pretty great MSQ content instead.

As that's the only real thing that you could "Miss out" on if you took your time to level. Maybe some Raids would be harder to complete, but if you have a decent FC and some friends it shouldn't be impossible to run through them during end of expansion lulls when everyone is overgeared to make them easier to do.

I do not think a skip is a good thing, not only for the intimidating price, but because these players cannot go back and do the story any longer, I would assume (I have never actually used one).

With Shadowbringers, they're introducing the New Game+ system, which will allow people to play through the MSQ again from the very beginning. Thus alleviating this concern.

They feel like they are just wasting time.

Perhaps they should reconsider why they're playing the game then.

If their only concern is reaching end-game and spamming Raids... Well... There's plenty of MMO's that cater to that type of gameplay. If they only want to farm Eureka... Well... They need to go see a psychologist because they're not right in the head xD

Maybe it's just me, but I play this game to have fun. I found the MSQ fun to do. I never felt that my time was being wasted, even though I took a break from mid-HW to mid-SB and slowly did the MSQ alongside other side activities. I wasn't doing cutting edge raids or progressing at the same rate as everyone else, but that didn't matter because I was having fun along the way.

I think there needs to be something in place, to alleviate this feeling. In WoW a new player has a boost, but can reach the relevant (expansion) content, and can go back and do older content at their own leisure.

WoW also has pretty trash actual story. With its entire focus being on "Get max level, spam Dungeons/Raids until the next expansion, rinse and repeat"

I think a way to go back and do the old story content (expansions) to catch up and do later, would be a good way to get players to relevant content, and keep them playing the game, while being able to go back and do the story content when they want to, so they don't miss out, and can get the full context of the latest story arch.

Personally, I feel that the opposite would be true.

I feel it would worsen the experience if players were easily able to get spoilers in the form of jumping to the latest content and seeing all the story it tells, before ever experiencing the lead up to this point from prior MSQ.

That's why I feel that people who actually care about the games story shouldn't use Story Skip potions, even if they are implementing NG+ to allow them to replay the story.

Since it would cheapen the entire story from previous expansions when you already know all the stuff that happened because of what's mentioned in the latest content.

[SturmChurro]

For one, people play games for different reasons, and one of the main draws of an mmorpg is to do actual endgame content, rather than running back and forth for 50 hours, and doing downgraded dungeons and trials. You may like doing that, but not everyone will, and having the option to skip this for players who want to play the mmo side of the mmorpg should be allowed, especially when the expansions keep stacking up. New game+ is nice , however.

No and they shouldn't. I'm not a big fan of AAR myself, I feel it's padded out, poorly paced and kinda weak in terms of dungeon design, but it does at least serve as a tutorial to new players, introducing them to all types of content, core basics of their jobs and various mechanics reused throughout harder and better thought-out content in later expansions. A player who comes into the game and immediately pops a skip potion is doing themselves and everyone around them a disservice. By missing out on that tutorial and getting thrown into content they're completely unprepared for, they inconvenience other players they get matched with.

I believe I run into enough of such players as is. If I have to explain what a stack mechanic is in the final raid of the current expansion despite the fact that the mechanic has existed and been reused in one form of another since at least Syrcus Tower... a part of me feels like skip potions shouldn't be available to brand new accounts in the first place. Those tools by themselves do have a purpose and are entirely justifiable if one is trying to make an alt, but a new player who has no pre-existing experience with the game doing it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

That said, yes early content does have issues. However, no problem is ever solved by pretending it doesn't exist and skipping past it. What could be done is some part of AAR being streamlined the way that Crystal Tower's introductory questline was in a recent patch, adding shortcuts and alternative paths that allow players the option to skip all the no longer necessary padding without missing out on the necessary learning experience and major plot points.

Not necessarily.

[Kalise]

For one, people play games for different reasons, and one of the main draws of an mmorpg is to do actual endgame content

Then they'll not particularly like FFXIV.

Since end-game content for it is not particularly great. Which is why many people get to max level, spam out raids until fully geared and then unsub until the next bit of MSQ gets released...

You may like doing that, but not everyone will, and having the option to skip this for players who want to play the mmo side of the mmorpg should be allowed, especially when the expansions keep stacking up. New game+ is nice , however.

The option is there. For a price.

If players really want to play the "MMO" side of things (Whatever that means in this context... I played with plenty of people doing the duties necessary for MSQ...) they can pay to skip all the stuff that makes FFXIV an actually good game and what gives it the edge over its competitors - Many of which do things better than it (ESO does far better open world content, BDO does far better combat, WoW does far better end-game Dungeon/Raid/PvP grinds).

FFXIV has its spot in having THE best story in an MMO. I'd even argue that it beats out Star Wars the Old Republic (Which is another story driven game... I hesitate to call it an MMO because 99.99% of the game and literally the entirety of the game that's worth a damn, is solo content. I.e. Doing your personal stories for each class and then the main story for each expansion. Dungeons and group content was/is trash in that game)

If people feel the need to skip that to get to the end-game grinds... Then they really do need to consider why they're playing this game as opposed to one of the other ones that caters to that gameplay better.

It's sort of like buying a book, then just reading the last chapter and saying "Well, I can read the rest of it later" but then you've only got the Epilogue left to actually read, which can be decent, but will always pale in comparison to you know, actually reading the story proper throughout the entire book.