CREDD/PLEX/WoW Token system

[Ilyrian]

Gil is worthless anyway - what on earth would people need to buy it for?

[whiskeybravo]

I wonder if FF14 could eventually add a system similar to the CREDD from WildStar, the PLEX from EVE Online, and the WoW Token from World of Warcraft. Such a system could work like this:

A player who wants more gil could buy a token for $20 on the Mog Station, and it would be delivered to a single character. That token could them be posted on the Market Board to be sold for gil. The exact amount of gil would depend on the market value at the time.

Afterward, another player would buy the token, and when using it, would be presented with an option to either add 30 days of subscription time, or to add 1500 Crysta which can be spent on Mog Station items or services, new FF14 expansions, or other Square Enix games.

This would allow players who want to buy gil to do so through a safe, secure, and legitimate official channel, allow players with excess gil to stay subscribed and buy more Square Enix games without spending their own real money, and completely cut shady gold seller sites out of the equation.

That's not going to work because Gil isn't a premium currency.

The more people that buy said token, the lower market prices would become. Simple supply and demand.

At some point SE would basically be trading real income from subs for their free in-game currency - which will continue to be devalued in relation to it's real money cost by a system such as this. Doesn't seem like a sustainable business model.

And I'd agree with others that it won't cut RMT because they are basically playing a zero-sum game. One penny of profit is more than no pennies at all.

[Rongway]

At some point SE would basically be trading real income from subs for their free in-game currency

This would not be true at all. Someone must pay SE for the token before it enters the game to be traded. No money would be lost. Potentially, money could be gained from people who would have canceled their subs to avoid paying, but decide it's worth staying subbed if someone else is paying for it. They could also make slightly more by adding an extra dollar to the token cost compared to a direct sub cost.

[whiskeybravo]

This would not be true at all. Someone must pay SE for the token before it enters the game to be traded. No money would be lost. Potentially, money could be gained from people who would have canceled their subs to avoid paying, but decide it's worth staying subbed if someone else is paying for it. They could also make slightly more by adding an extra dollar to the token cost compared to a direct sub cost.

No, because a sub is more or less guaranteed financial income every month compared to sporadic and unpredictable money trading (also potentially money laundering)

Remember that they have to provide a financial report to investors every quarter.. And there's a reason why virtually no other game allows players to buy premium items with "free" currency, because they're gonna get gamed eventually.

Money would indeed be lost. Instead of sub + optional revenue from every player, they would just be getting one or the other, occasionally both, from some players but not from others..

Besides all that, the key factor in inflation is how much currency is in circulation. It doesn't matter how many billions of gil players have, if they don't spend it, if they don't circulate the gil, then the effect on inflation is pretty negligible. What you'd be doing in fact is giving a reason for all that gil to enter circulation which will indeed lead to higher inflation numbers. If everyone is, or can be, a gillionaire, then the prices of everything will rise accordingly. Basic economic laws my friend.

[Roda]

No, because a sub is more or less guaranteed financial income every month compared to sporadic and unpredictable money trading (also potentially money laundering)

Remember that they have to provide a financial report to investors every quarter.. And there's a reason why virtually no other game allows players to buy premium items with "free" currency, because they're gonna get gamed eventually.

Money would indeed be lost. Instead of sub + optional revenue from every player, they would just be getting one or the other, occasionally both, from some players but not from others..

Besides all that, the key factor in inflation is how much currency is in circulation. It doesn't matter how many billions of gil players have, if they don't spend it, if they don't circulate the gil, then the effect on inflation is pretty negligible. What you'd be doing in fact is giving a reason for all that gil to enter circulation which will indeed lead to higher inflation numbers. If everyone is, or can be, a gillionaire, then the prices of everything will rise accordingly. Basic economic laws my friend.

?????????????????????????

WoW's system:
Someone pays blizzard $20.
They get a wow token.
wow token is put up for sale for 300k gold
Someone spends 300k gold on token
seller gets (300k - tax) gold.
Tax gold is deleted from the universe.
Buyer can either consume the token to get 1 month sub (normally $15) or gain $15 credit in their cash shop.

So at the end of this transaction: gold is taken out of the economy. Someone resubscribes or purchases something on the cash shop. Blizzard gets 5 free bucks for basically nothing. A botter/hacker/identity thief lost a sale.

[whiskeybravo]

?????????????????????????

WoW's system:
Someone pays blizzard $20.
They get a wow token.
wow token is put up for sale for 300k gold
Someone spends 300k gold on token
seller gets (300k - tax) gold.
Tax gold is deleted from the universe.
Buyer can either consume the token to get 1 month sub (normally $15) or gain $15 credit in their cash shop.

So at the end of this transaction: gold is taken out of the economy. Someone resubscribes or purchases something on the cash shop. Blizzard gets 5 free bucks for basically nothing. A botter/hacker/identity thief lost a sale.

There's an inexhaustible list of variables that would effect the outcome. Overpricing the "token" item is one way to seemingly make it a wash, but again you aren't looking at it from a revenue stream perspective. SE can calculate expected revenue from their subs, they can't do much more than guess at cash shop items. Same goes for investors.

Since I've never played WoW I can't comment on the relative purchasing power of 300k gold in that game compared to FFXIV. $20 for 300k gil doesn't seem like fair trade IMO, but that's a subjective decision that only I could make.

What's not subjective is the actual economic effects. What would occur in this situation is basically us paying money to SE for gil redistribution. The main players that would buy a token early on are likely the ones already approaching gil cap, so all that gil they've been sitting on would then enter into the game economy and be redistributed to others. These other players would then have more gil to then buy up things on the market board. Problem arises when we see there hasn't been a corresponding increase in the amount of goods on said market board. IE, if there were 10 minions on the board before, there are still 10 minions up now - but everyone has more gil to buy them up (this is what causes inflation, a minimal "gil tax" barely makes a difference in this regard). Because our market board functions like an auction house, new items posted would have a higher bidding price. Auction prices only go down when stuff isn't selling, sellers become impatient and lower their price in order to sell - OR - more people enter the market to provide goods thus stimulating competition. (in the real world this does occur, as new businesses flock to more profitable industries to capitalize instead of existing industries which have a higher entry cost/lower margins)

At the end of this transaction: there is simply more gil in circulation which will, with 100% certainty, effect the market in some manner or another. How much and in what way depends on the inexhaustible list of variables that we can't account for. No doubt if the market data for WoW existed we could find out what actually happened as a result, and I'd bet money it would confirm the above economic law. You don't have to believe it, but that doesn't mean it's not real.

[linay]

people who would have canceled their subs to avoid paying, but decide it's worth staying subbed if someone else is paying for it.

As someone else said, I'd rather these people actually pay their own sub if they want to stay. It makes it easier to see if a game is really worth it if everyone who plays it actually pays for it and not just stay because of being able to do it for free.

[Rongway]

As someone else said, I'd rather these people actually pay their own sub if they want to stay. It makes it easier to see if a game is really worth it if everyone who plays it actually pays for it and not just stay because of being able to do it for free.

Why does it matter? SE gets their sub fees, plus an additional fee for the token. Someone who would have chosen to leave the game for a month because $15 is too much gets to stay, and instead of $15 for a month's subscription, SE gets $16-$20 depending on the price of the token. If you don't want someone else paying for your sub, then pay your own sub. But don't confuse this with people getting to stay "for free"; someone's still paying the sub fees, and they're paying them at an increased price, which is more revenue for SE.

[Shougun]

Why does it matter?

I think it could be argued that people will become more fair weather (fickle) when they're given gil as an option. They enter into the gil system because saving $15 is pretty cool, then they get tired of playing for whatever reason and decide to unsub because their sub requires them to play (paying by gil). I think it would be important to see this physiologically like how if you like "hard challenging content" but the easy content rewards you more, therefore you spend most of your time doing the easy stuff to progress - even though it doesn't give you the most fun value (like how some do relic even though they don't enjoy it, I think the gil for sub may have that sort of deeper affect on SE). Once unsubbed SE has to work harder to get them resubbed which sometimes relies on them dropping huge content updates or expansions. Worse if the person who weaned off money onto gil then runs low on gil or is far behind and now just doesn't see value to resub anymore (too much "work" in their game and they don't want to pay cash anymore because they saw gil as an option).

Vs the game just being another bill like power or insurance (starbucks, whatever, spending your money - a currency you don't really have a choice in having to earn). So even if you're not feeling like playing now you might just stay subbed because why not (SE needs to revamp the vet. reward system to further encourage this imo) and if you did resub you'd not have to think about the work you need to do in game in order to play.. in game (not having to think if you're far behind and want to pay by gil but don't have the means to generate the gil needed comfortably to play and "play to pay").

I know some people could use it to great effect but I can't help but imagine that this system will create a less tightly bound relationship between player and SE. Imo, I feel PLEX/CREDD/Tokens create/promote a flimsy relationship and that it'll only be a benefit to SE in the short term (maybe for a few years). I'll give PLEX credit though in that EVE is a super hardcore game, so if it shakes off people who aren't insanely in love with the game then it's actually fine because the game wasn't for them anyways (it's not a theme park MMO).

That's of course ignoring the RMT part of the argument of why it might matter to some people (not wanting to see it promoted even if it can't be defeated).

[linay]

Why does it matter? SE...

I am not SE. What SE gets or doesn't get is not my concern. I don't want this game to be propped up by people with enough money to spend to pay for other players. If you want to play, pay for the game and pay for the sub. If you want something from the Mog Station, pay for it with real money. If you want something from the game other than a level boost or story skip, play the game.