Stablizing the market(stop undercutting everyone people!)

[TheVedis]

So yeah, the prices are now so low, that people dont get enough gil per item they are farming/making as is.

Why is it that we are still undercutting people when we are taking a massive loss as crafters on everything we make?

I urge everyone, stop the undercutting, match peoples prices! If you cant sell yours first like this you will live, but itl mean that youll actualy make more money in doing so!



So people realize, materials made by crafters are now running at a minimum 20-30% loss on everything you can make......basicaly, why sell it at all.
Gatherers and farmers make the money, crafters who dont farm their own mats buy them, they attempt to sell them only to have others undercut them below the value of the items cost. You undercut them back, and back and forth it goes til the price is 500gil on something that cost 4k to make....



Pass it along, start matching best prices instead of undercutting them over and over. Crafters are defeating themselves at the rate we are going!

[Jinrya-Geki]

I disagree, prices should be much lower than they are now.

Items are way too common to even be worth about 10k gil.

[BeePee]

Game play, UI, etc are fine and good to talk about with other servers...

But item pricing is a very server specific topic Jin. I'm sorry, but unless you're on Besaid, you have no room to talk.

[MicahZerrshia]

So yeah, the prices are now so low, that people dont get enough gil per item they are farming/making as is.

Why is it that we are still undercutting people when we are taking a massive loss as crafters on everything we make?

I urge everyone, stop the undercutting, match peoples prices! If you cant sell yours first like this you will live, but itl mean that youll actualy make more money in doing so!

So people realize, materials made by crafters are now running at a minimum 20-30% loss on everything you can make......basicaly, why sell it at all.
Gatherers and farmers make the money, crafters who dont farm their own mats buy them, they attempt to sell them only to have others undercut them below the value of the items cost. You undercut them back, and back and forth it goes til the price is 500gil on something that cost 4k to make....

This is very server specific but thats WHY you farm your own mats, if you wanna make some money you need to work for it. If you just wanna buy a few mats and expect to make a huge profit its not going to work for you in this game right now. You may have to buy 1 or 2 (like ingots if your a leatherworker and not an armorer) but you can still make a profit. Even synthing for exp you can make a profit if your savvy enough, I do. Which allows me to buy more random mats, increasing profits of others as well as mine (which also allows others more gil to buy what im making) and earning me exp at the same time. Its a nice circle.

And no one is going to stop undercutting cause everyone wants to sell theirs first

I disagree, prices should be much lower than they are now.

Items are way too common to even be worth about 10k gil.

not really, alot of crafters arent crafting as much, esp lower lvl gear, so stock isnt always that great.

[Mychael]

If you just wanna buy a few mats and expect to make a huge profit its not going to work for you in this game right now.

So wait, if I produce cars for a living, I should start by branching my company to mine its own ore and smelt it? I shouldn't make any money for forming the metal into the various parts and then assembling?

If I did mine my own ore, I would surely have a greater profit than if I bought it. But I shouldn't not make a profit because I bought it. DoL items should be worthless to the consumer. Do you buy iron ore frequently when you want a computer? There's an important step in-between that's just as important and deserves decent pay.

I know you said "in this game right now," so I hope you're saying that you think it should work differently.

not really, alot of crafters arent crafting as much, esp lower lvl gear, so stock isnt always that great.

I'm not sure how your server is, and I can't speak for Besaid, but the trend seems to be that lower-leveled gear is worth more than higher-leveled gear that's mass-produced for SB.

[MicahZerrshia]

So wait, if I produce cars for a living, I should start by branching my company to mine its own ore and smelt it? I shouldn't make any money for forming the metal into the various parts and then assembling?

If I did mine my own ore, I would surely have a greater profit than if I bought it. But I shouldn't not make a profit because I bought it. DoL items should be worthless to the consumer. Do you buy iron ore frequently when you want a computer? There's an important step in-between that's just as important and deserves decent pay.

I know you said "in this game right now," so I hope you're saying that you think it should work differently.



I'm not sure how your server is, and I can't speak for Besaid, but the trend seems to be that lower-leveled gear is worth more than higher-leveled gear that's mass-produced for SB.

Thats a completely unreasonable comparison, as is using almost anything real-world to compare it to gaming lol

Car makers contract out with other production companies to get a fair price. Unless you want to start contracting out with other DoH and DoL this analogy does not work. Esp since even then there is not a fair trade market and other crafters you would agree to buy all their ore from is going to still rely on the markets since they will be able, in alot of cases, get a better price for their merchandise from these markets than from you, thus causing you to pay higher prices and reduce your profits again. Viscous cycle when its not real life with things like quality control and international trading laws to worry about

Anyway what Im saying is as a leathercrafter I can farm up enough skins and sinews to mass produce gear in an hr or so. Alumen, that I need to make skin to leather, is cheap so doesnt cut into profits and if I want it I can spend another hr farming that and come back with a few stacks which will last me forever. So all I really need to do is buy ingots. If I had to buy the leather and the sinew and the alumen and the rubber and the ingots, no I would not expect to make much of a profit, if any at all. And to boot the farming also earns me shards which I can use to make the stuff again saving me more precious gil and raising my profit margins.

And yes lower lvl gear is worth more but at the same time it sells alot slower which causes alot of crafters not to produce it. They would rather sell 5 20k high lvl gloves a day than 1 100k low lvl pair a week

[zaviermhigo]

On my server undercutting is ridiculous. thank god no one undercuts on karakul fleece and wool/felt gear because of the time/effort it takes, if they did I'd rage.

[Mychael]

Thats a completely unreasonable comparison, as is using almost anything real-world to compare it to gaming lol

Car makers contract out with other production companies to get a fair price. Unless you want to start contracting out with other DoH and DoL this analogy does not work. Esp since even then there is not a fair trade market and other crafters you would agree to buy all their ore from is going to still rely on the markets since they will be able, in alot of cases, get a better price for their merchandise from these markets than from you, thus causing you to pay higher prices and reduce your profits again. Viscous cycle when its not real life with things like quality control and international trading laws to worry about

Anyway what Im saying is as a leathercrafter I can farm up enough skins and sinews to mass produce gear in an hr or so. Alumen, that I need to make skin to leather, is cheap so doesnt cut into profits and if I want it I can spend another hr farming that and come back with a few stacks which will last me forever. So all I really need to do is buy ingots. If I had to buy the leather and the sinew and the alumen and the rubber and the ingots, no I would not expect to make much of a profit, if any at all. And to boot the farming also earns me shards which I can use to make the stuff again saving me more precious gil and raising my profit margins.

And yes lower lvl gear is worth more but at the same time it sells alot slower which causes alot of crafters not to produce it. They would rather sell 5 20k high lvl gloves a day than 1 100k low lvl pair a week

I don't really get the "if it applies in the real world, it shouldn't apply in a game" mindset, so I suppose I'll never really be able to see your viewpoint fairly. So maybe we get to cast spells, but I don't see why it should change principles of economics.

I still stand by what I said. Disciples of the Hand should be able to make money without the associated Disciple of the Land, just not as much.

You make a fair point about lower-level gear selling slower, though.

IMHO, undercutting is alright to make you sell your gear faster. The problem is, everyone thinks they need to undercut the undercutter. So instead of having 10 [Piece of Gear] at 100k, and one at 80k because X is more desperate for quick money than total money, we have one from last week at 100k, one at 90, one at 80, one at 75, one at 70, and one at 65, etc. If you're okay with this, please feel free to hop over.

Contracting is irrelevant. If you don't contract, you'll pay more, but you'll still net profit, or you wouldn't buy the material(s). It should work that way. If the DoH can't make a profit, they shouldn't be willing to pay for the mats. Unfortunately, games have to have something which nets XP, so people will buy mats no matter the price just to skill up. I could understand this for low-/mid-level gear, and for recipes used primarily for skilling up. However, for for gear that people actually want to use, there really should be a profit margin, not a loss margin.

[Skies]

I don't really get the "if it applies in the real world, it shouldn't apply in a game" mindset, so I suppose I'll never really be able to see your viewpoint fairly. So maybe we get to cast spells, but I don't see why it should change principles of economics.

I got no say in this since i'm not from besaid but I saw this thread in the newest posts and I saw this.
Mychael, you need to remember that while it is true that the principles of economics do apply in a game, you need to remember that a game runs by entirely different rules as well, including things like money coming out of no goddamn where, infinity supply and there being no such thing as a a tradesman actually needing to sell well or even at all in order to survive.
Juuuuust keep that in mind

[Claire_Pendragon]

The reality is, the game produces a near infinite amount of materials.
The only way to raise value, is to make the items less common.
Via drop rates, OR
the old system people complained about.
Making an AH system, MWs, where it's a pain to compare prices and lower them, where it's a pain to look through them, and you purchase items at higher prices because you don't wanna keep looking, etc.

Economies don't belong in MMOs. This only shows to you why.
(Heck, any monetary system is going to be flawed, no matter how much you try to balance it. It's just not possible.)