Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
You're joking, right?

Every time these forums bring up feedback for a tank it's always about damage. It's almost never about doing more traditionally tank things. it's about doing more damage. it's about more interesting damage rotations. Anytime tanking accessories come up, it's never about designing encounters or tanks so that scaling defenses and health are useful, it's -always about damage-.

When Dark Knight was considered suboptimal, the requests were split between having their defense fixed, -and doing more damage-. They wanted Reprisal and Low Blow back -to do more damage-.

In this very topic and others like it, the concern about MT/OT splits is not being able to play the tank you want, primarily because the assumed "Meta" will be OT/OT because it's assumed they'll do the most -damage-.

Every time a change gets suggested, it's almost always in the vein of more damage, even when it's more "cleverly veiled" around fairness or equity.
WTF does any of this relate to my post?

If you're trying to say that I'm assuming that I'm advocating for Tank Stance + Enmity spam playstyle then you're sorely mistaken.

Tanks should be getting damage increases for actively tanking. They should all have more things like Shield Swipe and Vengeance that makes using mitigation skills create DPS increases. They should benefit from being the focus of enemies, and this benefit should be relevant (I.e. More damage).

Also, WTF thread are you reading? No-one in this thread has talked about the "Meta" being OT/OT due to dealing more damage (That's the other thread where that was being discussed)

In this thread it has only been a discussion about PLD's being "OT's" while DRK's are considered "MT's" - With people talking about whom is easier to heal from an anecdotal perspective.

Neither PLD nor DRK are defined by their damage. Since, all 3 Tanks do roughly the same damage. That's why PLD is the preferential OT over a theoretical more damaging Tank job. Since, in lieu of having a job that's more damaging, we simply have PLD who has more utility.

If we bring in MT/OT divide debate from the other thread into here (Though, why we should have to, since the debate already has its own thread)

Then you get some people actively asking for "OT's" to deal more damage (As well as having more utility) - Which is actively going to create those OT/OT metas because we already don't care about defenses so much so that we don't use defensive stances, so people saying "MT's" should get more defence while "OT's" should get more damage and utility are literally advocating for an intentional death sentence for 2/4 tanking jobs.

If we get back to my point:

Tanks should WANT to be Tanking mobs. They shouldn't want to be hiding behind someone else, poking a boss's butt like a DPS. They shouldn't want to be stood in the backlines tossing out support skills like a Healer. They should want to be going toe to toe with the big bad that wants to smoosh the party.

This should be designed for, for ALL Tanks, it should be inherent to the role of Tank to actually want to be TANKING.

What bonuses it gives, should be relevant to make it enticing to be Tanking (Usually Damage), as well as encounter designs making it more likely to have BOTH Tanks be actively tanking for a lot of the time.

Having Tanks being designed specifically for an "OT" role where they just sit around and spam DPS, or sit around using support skills and that's their optimal playstyle where they want to spend as little time actively being a Tank as possible, is absolute disgusting design and a complete affront to the role - Especially so for anyone whom actually enjoys Tanking and likes the playstyle/lore/aesthetics of a particular job and doesn't want to end up being railroaded into this shitty role where they play a second class DPS because they're optimized to not be tanking in order to use their kit.

This isn't and will never be simply a matter of "Making defences useful" which you're seemingly believing I'm stating. But a matter of core mechanics.

Skills like Sheltron, TBN and Shield Swipe are the ideals of Tank design. They're fun to use to maximum potential, making sure to time them for the best mitigation as well as managing the resources they consume (Including the CD for TBN) and they promote actively tanking as they get their best benefit when you're the active target of the boss because more consistent damage is being pushed out to be able to utilize them.

THAT'S the sort of thing Tanks should be designed around. They shouldn't be designed around "Well... In order to be an effective member of my team... I need to stand around tossing out Cover/PoA but that means I need someone else to Tank so I can use them!"