So-called "Mentors" and intentional disconnections.

[van_arn]

I find disconnecting to get out of a run to be dumb, mentor or no. The problem is a disconnect penalty doesn't matter, since the people doing that intend on just walking away and making a sandwich while the cooldown ticks away. Even if the cooldown were applied when people log in, 30 minutes is enough time to settle into the game before you'd want to queue anyway.

It seems more courteous to bail if you've made up your mind to not run something than make the party guess whether someone's coming back, or do nothing in the 5 minutes before they can start searching for a replacement.

If the cooldown were applied the next time the player logs in, that would make a lot more sense as a deterrent.

Square's never going to make people run things they don't want to, though; the best they can do is make content people aren't willing to eat a penalty to get away from. This is true no matter what the penalty is, because if it's particularly onerous they'll just not bother logging back in.

Like I've said before, the problem with EX trials in mentor roulette (along with MSQ in mentor roulette) is the penalty for leaving is less than the penalty for staying. While it's possible to increase the penalty for leaving, there's no way to do so without also increasing the penalty for people that need to withdraw from a dungeon for more common means-- such as not wanting to spend time with the people you're grouped with due to harassment, or maybe an emergency comes up and you no longer have the time to run the dungeon. Blocking (or threatening to action) mentors from mentor roulette is throwing away an extremely valuable tool Square uses to lessen queue times as well, so they're not going to make it any more exclusive than it already is. And yes, mentor roulette is far more exclusive than mentor.

Furthermore, the people that have completed all of the content mentor roulette requires are better spent on other (non-optional) content. The tank pulled into an EX trial or MSQ dungeon from mentor roulette could've been provided to someone wanting to run Castrum Abania or Lakshmi, both of which have nasty first-run queues because people typically use the roulettes to level alts.

While it's true you can to be kicked, the party is under no obligation to grant that request. Just going straight up AFK is inconsiderate to your party, as well. Being able to withdraw -- provided you're willing to pay enough of a penalty to make it something you wouldn't just repeatedly do -- is your ultimate personal failsafe. And yeah, it's actually pretty considerate compared to the alternatives.

The fact that ex trials filled by mentor roulette often collapse is incidental -- the advice is the same as it's always been: don't try to do endgame (be it 50, 60, or 70) content through duty finder. If you do, there's a much higher chance than normal the party will collapse. As a mentor that occasionally spams the roulette because he's bored, who is so far away from a mount he just doesn't care about it, that's my advice.

[Cabalabob]

The devs big mistake was tying any rewards to the mentor system. It attracts the wrong kind of people to it.

Maybe a short term reward to get people to try the system, maybe they’ll realise they are a mentor after all. But something so long term as a 2000 runs goal is just going to end badly. Pretty much anyone with an astrope Mount right now has probably farmed those 2000 dungeons without saying a word to anyone. Isn’t it sad that people with the penultimate mentor reward right now are the people who are likely least deserving of it?. Hell, even making the symbol a crown is a little too gaudy for a mentor.

Most people I know who are actually mentors, the ones who genuinely help people and give advice and go to the PF looking for learning parties to join just to help out, don’t even use the system because they don’t want to be associated with those people who are just in it for rewards. The person who deserves the mentor of mentors title is the person who has helped teach someone who has then gone on to help teach others, not the person who ran 500 mentor roulettes and didn’t help anyone but themselves.

Mentor roulette in general is really nothing to do with mentoring. You’re there to fill out queues for old content really, not help anyone. It shouldn’t have been tied to mentoring at all and just be something for people who have completed every piece of content.

[Kurando]

Mentor roulette in general is really nothing to do with mentoring. You’re there to fill out queues for old content really, not help anyone. It shouldn’t have been tied to mentoring at all and just be something for people who have completed every piece of content.

Well that's only partly correct. The Mentor Roulette forces the crown on the player and anyone will know that when you turn on Mentor status manually it has some requirements of the player to follow, so provide assistance and be a good example etc. So saying that, the roulette and mentor status go hand in hand therefore it has expections of those that queue through it. Granted you don't need to be a mentor to help others and even then not everyone is perfect or knows every single mech, but as long as it's a Mentor Roulette (and forces the status on the player) then it's a little more then just filling out queues. Of course there are tons of other issues with the mentor system, but the Roulette is the only thing with requirements that regularly get updated so it does something right at least.

[Cabalabob]

Well that's only partly correct. The Mentor Roulette forces the crown on the player and anyone will know that when you turn on Mentor status manually it has some requirements of the player to follow, so provide assistance and be a good example etc. So saying that, the roulette and mentor status go hand in hand therefore it has expections of those that queue through it. Granted you don't need to be a mentor to help others and even then not everyone is perfect or knows every single mech, but as long as it's a Mentor Roulette (and forces the status on the player) then it's a little more then just filling out queues. Of course there are tons of other issues with the mentor system, but the Roulette is the only thing with requirements that regularly get updated so it does something right at least.

I’m not saying mentor roulette ISN’T tied to being a mentor, I’m saying it SHOULDN’T be. It should have just been duty roulette: all, and been a reward for unlocking and completing every duty, it could even have kept the astrope as an achievement reward for using it. Sure mentors could and probably would use it. But it shouldn’t have this mentor expectation tied to it since it really is just an excuse to get people into old content.

Like I said, being a mentor is something you should want to do for its own sake, not something with requirements and rewards.

Just gonna leave this here cause it may have been a joke but it’s just too accurate:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szjMs3qkozI

[Pepsi_Plunge]

The real problems are the Ex-Contests in the Roulette.

As someone who got my crown and opened up Mentor Roulette a few weeks ago, I like helping people especially in the novice-chat. But every time I dare to do Mentor Roulette I pray to RNG'sus not to give me an Ex-Primael because I have no idea what to do in it. I can't help people there, because I've never done one of the Level 50 Ex-Trials sync myself. Sure, I can kill every one of them with my Level 70 jobs unsync just fine, but sync? I just would be a burden to the group myself, with no plan and total at a loss. I would screw up and I would screw up bad. And I guess a lot of mentors who started with the game after Stormblood was released are the same like me, as we just never "needed" it to do sync and probably never did.

[MsMisato]

The real problems are the Ex-Contests in the Roulette.

As someone who got my crown and opened up Mentor Roulette a few weeks ago, I like helping people especially in the novice-chat. But every time I dare to do Mentor Roulette I pray to RNG'sus not to give me an Ex-Primael because I have no idea what to do in it. I can't help people there, because I've never done one of the Level 50 Ex-Trials sync myself. Sure, I can kill every one of them with my Level 70 jobs unsync just fine, but sync? I just would be a burden to the group myself, with no plan and total at a loss. I would screw up and I would screw up bad. And I guess a lot of mentors who started with the game after Stormblood was released are the same like me, as we just never "needed" it to do sync and probably never did.

Thats when you take the bullet, watch a video, open up party finder and do 50 ex trails flagged sprouts to learn. you get to farm mounts, and do WT at the same time for some of them. Shoot you will probably get some hardcore raiders that will join just for the sheer mechanics itself. Mentors are there to teach but also to learn as well. Its a 2 way street when being a mentor.

[LalaRu]

Whenever possible, if someone disconnects and the feeling of it happened on purpose strong, will try to keep the guy in party but votekick before last boss.

Who disconnect on purpose, is doing so taking for granted he will be kicked out long before the 30' of the alternative duty ditching.

[Nyxn607]

My two gil is this: While it sucks when people leave immediately Mentor or not doesn't matter, everyone has their own reasons for doing so. It could be that they just don't want to do the content, they pay a subscription to make that decision to take the 30 minute penalty than to sit through content they don't want to. They may also leave for issues irl that happen to pop up at the wrong time (i.e. when they get into a dungeon). Maybe their landlord, repair person, parents, significant other show up. Maybe a relative or friend ended up in the hospital or worse. No one knows except the person that leaves.

Does it sucks for the other people in the party when this happens? Yes, of course. Should we punish people for leaving immediately? No, they are already hit with a 30 minute timer. As I said, they pay a subscription to play the game, how they choose to do so is up to them, not everyone else.

[LalaRu]

...Should we punish people for leaving immediately? No, they are already hit with a 30 minute timer. ...

The concern here are the people that don't want pay the penalty and fake disconnections. If someone leave and eat its 30' penalty, is perfectly fine.

[Nyxn607]

The concern here are the people that don't want pay the penalty and fake disconnections. If someone leave and eat its 30' penalty, is perfectly fine.

I am assuming you are referring to those that "d/c" and hope they party kicks them? I believe if everyone leaves after they "d/c" they still get the timer. I am not 100% though.