5.0 leaks (that I don't believe)

[Nezerius]

4chan isn't exactly winning a Pulitzer. They are there to sow chaos on the internet, very much like the Ascians here in Eorzea.

You're giving the website way too much credit. It's just an imageboard where people post stuff, just like any other forum. Only difference being that posters are anonymous by default (although some boards do apply a poster ID of random numbers/letters).
And just like any other forum, they've had actual leaks posted before. General statement, not saying this specific leak is real.

[Kalise]

It isn't as simple as you make it sound like it would be as there would be 1-50 class skills to change beyond 3 levels beyond 50 to change. It would have to be a whole new job if all of arc were taken out. Both it and sch have this problem of course, you'd have to totally come up with new skills to replace the ones lost 1-50 and have them work still in that level content.

Well, the simplest answer is to just rename the current skills.

Ruin becomes I dunno... Dark? Banish? Fire Whip? Shining Air? Heavy Dust?

Bio becomes... Poison? Pain?

Miasma becomes... Scourge?

Physick becomes... White Flame? Earth Heal? Cauterize?

Energy Drain becomes... Osmose?

Shadowflare becomes... Voidstorm? Thunderstorm? Firestorm? Sandstorm?

This shifts the workload into simply creating unique spell effects and designing a new Job Gauge. Without having to actually rebalance anything at the time (Rebalancing can always come later to create more distinct jobs by differentiating the skills more)

[Rosa_Frandlia]

Well, the simplest answer is to just rename the current skills.

Ruin becomes I dunno... Dark? Banish? Fire Whip? Shining Air? Heavy Dust?

Bio becomes... Poison? Pain?

Miasma becomes... Scourge?

Physick becomes... White Flame? Earth Heal? Cauterize?

Energy Drain becomes... Osmose?

Shadowflare becomes... Voidstorm? Thunderstorm? Firestorm? Sandstorm?

This shifts the workload into simply creating unique spell effects and designing a new Job Gauge. Without having to actually rebalance anything at the time (Rebalancing can always come later to create more distinct jobs by differentiating the skills more)

That would work, but new animations would needed and again it isn't as simple as you want to make it. As for the carbuncles, in previous games they typically gave a reflect spell which doesn't work in FFXIV and doesn't actually fit either well. Also what would you do about Alphinauad's obsidian and ruby ones as they are dps and wouldn't fit your paradigm? Would you require the msq to change as well?

Can you at least agree it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it sound to split summoner and scholar from a lore standpoint? I'd hate to see it as they need to get healers balanced per their own words before giving us a new healer and we're waiting at least 2 more years.

[linay]

Either way, they are not going to role change Arcanist from DPS to Healer. Either Scholar is separated or both jobs will stay, but Summoner will not be separated in favor of Scholar if it means role changing Arcanist.

[Kalise]

As for the carbuncles, in previous games they typically gave a reflect spell which doesn't work in FFXIV and doesn't actually fit either well.

Didn't stop us getting Radiant Shield on Ifrit-Egi.

Also what would you do about Alphinauad's obsidian and ruby ones as they are dps and wouldn't fit your paradigm?

Nothing.

Players don't get access to Alphinaud's unique Obsidian Carbuncle. Thus, it can be different.

Also, as I mentioned before, it's possible to have Carbuncles having an auto-attack before being "Upgraded" into the Fairies that are pure healers upon becoming SCH.

Can you at least agree it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it sound to split summoner and scholar from a lore standpoint?

From a lore standpoint, it's easy to split Summoner from Arcanist. Given that Summoner literally has no interaction with you being an Arcanist at all. There is no reference to you being an Arcanist.

Scholar on the other hand, literally does mention you being an Arcanist, it's literally the reason that Alka Zolka came to the Arcanists guild to seek out an experienced Arcanist because he wasn't versed in Arcanima what with being a Marauder...

I'd hate to see it as they need to get healers balanced per their own words before giving us a new healer and we're waiting at least 2 more years.

I don't know what relevance this has?

In no world would splitting a job from Arcanist create a "New" healer. The only Healer would be Scholar. For the same reason you don't see Conjurer's running about the place...

[Jonnycbad]

I think they could have role changed Arcanist to a Healer. It's a bit strange that there's only 1 healing class for starting players, but like 5 DPS classes. Although, Physick is quite strong at low levels and you can definitely main heal with it.

[linay]

I think they could have role changed Arcanist to a Healer. It's a bit strange that there's only 1 healing class for starting players, but like 5 DPS classes. Although, Physick is quite strong at low levels and you can definitely main heal with it.

That would break trust for players that chose Arcanist as a DPS. People who want to play Scholar already know Arcanist is DPS while people who don't play Scholar expect Arcanist to be DPS.

[Seraphor]

From a lore standpoint, it's easy to split Summoner from Arcanist. Given that Summoner literally has no interaction with you being an Arcanist at all. There is no reference to you being an Arcanist.

Scholar on the other hand, literally does mention you being an Arcanist, it's literally the reason that Alka Zolka came to the Arcanists guild to seek out an experienced Arcanist because he wasn't versed in Arcanima what with being a Marauder...

I don’t see why this would be a problem, either way you split it.
Separate SCH, a job that starts at level 30 and is unlocked via a level 30 Arcanist quest.
Therefore, story continuity still acknowledges that you have previous Arcanist experience, and you can still say that the SCH skillset is ‘based on’ the Arcanist one, but all your skills as a SCH are SCH exclusive. This solves the main problem with the shared job roles, how each one hinders the balance of the other.
The fact that it’s still ‘locked’ behind Arcanist isn’t an issue, Rogue is already locked behind levelling another class to 10, 30 is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Again, it works either way, but as Arcanist is already DPS, and how the equipment works with healer tomes are SCH exclusive and DPS tomes are ARC/SMN, and the Carbuncles being mechanically identical to Egi’s, it makes far more sense to split out SCH.


How I would do it:

Arcanist/Summoner rework
No longer has Aetherflow, all skills that previously required it are now on cooldown but still generate Aethertrail.
Miasma renamed to Virus.
*Arcanist skills.

*Ruin
*Bio
*Summon
[Aetherflow] (deleted)
*Osmose (Energy Drain analogue, on cooldown instead of Aetherflow)
*Virus (Miasma analogue)
*Summon II
*Sustain
[Resurrection] (deleted or renamed?)
*Bio II
[Bane] (removed, effect bundled in with Tri-Bind)
Summon III
Fester (cooldown instead of aetherflow)
*Ruin II
Tri-bind (includes effect of Bane and generates Aethertrail)
*Rouse
*Shadowflare
Enkindle
Painflare (cooldown instead of aetherflow)
Ruin III
Tri-disaster
Dreadwyrm Trance
Deathflare
Ruin IV
Aetherpact
Bio III
Virus II (no more awkward Miasma III without Miasma II)
Summon Bahamut
Wyrmwave
[Enkindle Bahamut] (deleted, combined with Enkindle)
Akh Morn

Then, if the rumoured Phoenix Egi/Demi is real:
Rebirth Flame (new Resurrection, a Phoenix themed spell and justification for why SMN can raise)
Firebird Trance
Summon Phoenix
Revelation
Fountain of Fire


Scholar rework
Replace all Ruins with Broils, so Broil I to IV instead of two of each.
Replace Bio and Shadowflare with Helix spells.
Sustain and Rouse would be removed, but instead the fairies would have a higher innate HP regen and their own Largesse type skill. Less focus on supporting your pets, your pets support you, unlike Summoner.

Physick
Evoke Eos (Summon)
Broil
Aetherflow
Energy Drain
Miasma
Evoke Selene (Summon II)
Resurrection
Helix (Bio analogue, Helix spells were Scholar DoTs in FFXI)
Bane
Adloquium
Succor
Broil II
Sacred Soil
Miasma II
Geohelix (Shadowflare analogue, could even be an Aetherflow ability now)
Lustrate
Indomitability
Broil III
Deployment Tactics
Emergency Tactics
Dissipation
Excogitation
Broil IV
Chain Stratagem
Aetherpact
Fey Union
Dissolve Union


Both skill sets are complete, and no skills are shared between the two jobs at all, and can now be balanced as needed.

[Grimoire-M]

From a lore standpoint, it's easy to split Summoner from Arcanist. Given that Summoner literally has no interaction with you being an Arcanist at all. There is no reference to you being an Arcanist.

I've gone up and down on you over this already, but to put this to rest, this quote is from Thubyrgeim, the Arcanist class master, when you start the Summoner job quest line:

It appears that the research the Sons are currently conducting would benefit from the assistance of an Arcanist-specifically one who has had the tempering experience of defeating the primal Ifrit.

If Alka Zolka's "unfamiliarity with Arcanima" counts enough for Scholar in your eyes, this is more than enough for Summoner.

Moving on, I agree with Seraphor's proposal somewhat, but I don't feel it's needed. All Scholar needs right now is an update to their Damage over Time spells to separate those off from Summoner proper. While I'd like SCH to get an improved version of Shadowflare at some point too (perhaps combining it and Sacred Soil), it honestly could go from both it and Summoner's kits entirely and not be missed with enough of an AoE potency boost elsewhere to compensate. I doubt SE wants to add much more damage to Scholar as it stands. It's just necessary to keep up with Broil III and make room for IV eventually. The Helix spells would make a fine reference for that purpose.

I would prefer to keep Aetherflow on Summoner though, as I feel the only problem with SB SMN was the various lockouts they added in an attempt to gut the HW rotation, that ironically would also serve to clean up the class now if they reverted back to it and actually bothered with proper filler. The original intent, from what I can gather, is it was partially meant as a NIN nerf in addition to making room for Bahamut in their rotation and forcing DWT to act as filler as was their original intent in HW, instead of addressing all of those problems directly in alternative ways. They basically painted themselves into a corner trying to make it work after the fact and I hope they realized that and then took that information into account when reworking Summoner again for Shadowbringers.

[Coltvoyance]

This whole ACN, SMN, SCH argument is ridiculous; putting it to bed with this post so we can all get back on topic.

Fun Fact: Every SMN weapon is called an ARCANIST'S GRIMOIRE.
It's right there in the item, go take a look. If that's not enough of a clue for you, read on.

Aside from that, it makes more sense for ACN to stay DPS with SMN and SCH to be its own thing. And it has nothing to do with lore and skills.

It makes more sense from a systems, development and player expectation standpoint. You can talk all you want about lore and skills, but everything is interconnected in an MMO and ignoring the logistics of other systems in something like a role change is short-sighted.

Want to know why it will stay DPS?

Gear: This is more than enough reason right here. Every piece of SMN equipment, excluding Relic gear, is wearable by ACN. Every pair of casting boots, every PVP casting chest piece, every Magic DPS book, ring or bracelet. They are all listed for ACN. Want to know what ACN isn't listed for? All the SCH gear.

And while adding new classes to pieces of gear isn't a big deal (it happens every expansion) removing a job/class is impossible.

Why? Because however odd it is, there are likely thousands of ACN players out there, without a SMN soulstone, with SMN/ACN gear equipped; not Disciple of Magic gear, actual class specific Magic DPS gear.

Why is that a big deal? Because Square can't do anything about it.
There's a reason you have to be naked, except for your weapon, when you use a Fantasia.

If I'm an ACN wearing class specific gear before the patch and after the patch I'm not allowed to wear that gear - pretty sure that's gonna cause an error somewhere. "Just create code that kicks the gear off the player, NBD" you say?. Sorry, can't. Both my Armory Chest and my Inventory are completely full so there's nowhere for it to go. And I'm pretty sure Square isn't about to delete my gear.

So you can stop debating. I could list some other reasons, but that's pretty cut and dry.