Destroying Server Economies

[LaylaTsarra]

Yeah sure lets continue to pay 2 million for piece of high end gear on some servers where others are 400k. Let be sure to maintain that sillyness.

[Rosentretter]

Not even a whole day has passed after this feature being implemented and you're already complaining.

Oh.
My.
God.

Really?

[Nixxe]

Yeah sure lets continue to pay 2 million for piece of high end gear on some servers where others are 400k. Let be sure to maintain that sillyness.

If these prices are adjusted to their respective economies, then their effective value should be roughly equal, even if the nominal price is different. Prior to today, a single gil on a higher pop server has more purchasing power than a single gil on a lower pop server, and thus 400k may seem cheaper, but is going to be roughly the same amount of purchasing power as 2 million gil on that other server. The only place where you get into an issue is where the population gets so low that there's no consistency to supply and demand, which allows for weird situations that don't auto-adjust to crop up, though that can happen with individual items on larger servers as well.

[Seraphor]

If these prices are adjusted to their respective economies, then their effective value should be roughly equal, even if the nominal price is different. Prior to today, a single gil on a higher pop server has more purchasing power than a single gil on a lower pop server, and thus 400k may seem cheaper, but is going to be roughly the same amount of purchasing power as 2 million gil on that other server. The only place where you get into an issue is where the population gets so low that there's no consistency to supply and demand, which allows for weird situations that don't auto-adjust to crop up, though that can happen with individual items on larger servers as well.

This is only true for people partaking in marketboard shenanigans.
For regular non-crafting, non-flipping players, 1gil is 1gil, because all of your gil is obtained through direct involvement with the games systems, not the dynamic marketboard economy.

This is why super inflated markets where those items are 2m instead of 400k are so bad. New players or players who don't have the time or patience for crafting don't stand a goddamn chance.

[Nixxe]

This is only true for people partaking in marketboard shenanigans.
For regular non-crafting, non-flipping players, 1gil is 1gil, because all of your gil is obtained through direct involvement with the games systems, not the dynamic marketboard economy.

This is why supper inflated markets where those items are 2m instead of 400k are so bad. New players or players who don't have the time or patience for crafting don't stand a goddamn chance.

If you don't engage with the marketboard, then it doesn't matter either way. If you engage with the marketboard only to buy, that's your own fault and nobody should feel sorry for you. If you want to purchase other people's time and resources, then you will need to work for it and there's nothing wrong with that. Instead of vendoring stuff you don't want, put it up for sale. It's not difficult. Anyone can do it.

[Seraphor]

If you don't engage with the marketboard, then it doesn't matter either way. If you engage with the marketboard only to buy, that's your own fault and nobody should feel sorry for you. If you want to purchase other people's time and resources, then you will need to work for it and there's nothing wrong with that. Instead of vendoring stuff you don't want, put it up for sale. It's not difficult. Anyone can do it.

The vast majority of items don't make a profit on the marketboard. Which is why crafters dominate it.
It takes the same amount of time to craft something and sell it for 400k, as it does to sell it for 2m.
As I've just demonstrated why your 'purchasing power' argument is false, why should you make 2m while someone else only makes 400k?
Why should someone pay 2m for something that should only cost them 400k?

Why should your 1 hour of crafting time net you 2m, but my 1 hour of crafting time only make me 400k?

Why should Bob on server X purchase this item for 400k, after only 15 hours of dungeon grinding, but I can only purchase the item for 2m after 75 hours of dungeon grinding?

What makes your time worth more than mine?

It’s that simple, and that’s why these disparate economies are such a problem, and why this world visit system will be good for the economies.

[Nixxe]

The vast majority of items don't make a profit on the marketboard. Which is why crafters dominate it.
It takes the same amount of time to craft something and sell it for 400k, as it does to sell it for 2m.
As I've just demonstrated why your 'purchasing power' argument is false, why should you make 2m while someone else only makes 400k?
Why should someone pay 2m for something that should only cost them 400k?

Why should your 1 hour of crafting time net you 2m, but my 1 hour of crafting time only make me 400k?

Why should Bob on server X purchase this item for 400k, after only 15 hours of dungeon grinding, but I can only purchase the item for 2m after 75 hours of dungeon grinding?

What makes your time worth more than mine?

It’s that simple, and that’s why these disparate economies are such a problem, and why this world visit system will be good for the economies.

You didn't prove my argument false. You added a caveat to it, which I was not unaware of, but which ultimately doesn't matter a whole lot because the player economy is the overwhelming influence in determining item value, not the fixed aspects of the economy. What I said about purchasing power is generally correct, whether you like it or not.

If you dungeon grind for gil, that's your fault for being bad at gil making. You don't deserve to have whatever you want just because you want it. You don't deserve to have whatever you want just because you did something you wanted to do. If you want stuff, work for it or go without. You say "players who don't have the patience for crafting," but those are just players who aren't willing to work for what they want. They have other options, though those may be less optimal. Why should I feel bad for them?

Now, to be clear, I don't care about this change. It won't affect me. It may even be an improvement for me, since I can now have access to the entire data center's material supply and potentially take control of a particular market across all servers. I just think it's erroneous to talk about "fair" prices or other such nonsense that people who think economics is the study of feelings like to bring up. The issue with the economies on lower pop servers wasn't the prices; it was the below threshold supply and demand that results in a really inconsistent economy.

[Eriane_Elis]

Yeah sure lets continue to pay 2 million for piece of high end gear on some servers where others are 400k. Let be sure to maintain that sillyness.

You have to consider how long it takes to obtain the mats, then how much effort it took to become a crafter at said level and if cross-class skills were needed then you consider those as well. Then once you're done computing that, you add a bit for yourself. I was pretty shocked to see how cheap everything is in FF14 overall when I first came here. It's like people don't value themselves very much. But after playing for some time, I learned that there are market bots, gathering bots, and bots everywhere. Then there are those who have like 8 characters with 4 retainers each ruling the markets with discord notifications on price changes. I can see why people just give up and put their prices pretty low.

[Malzian]

You have to consider how long it takes to obtain the mats, then how much effort it took to become a crafter at said level and if cross-class skills were needed then you consider those as well. Then once you're done computing that, you add a bit for yourself. I was pretty shocked to see how cheap everything is in FF14 overall when I first came here. It's like people don't value themselves very much. But after playing for some time, I learned that there are market bots, gathering bots, and bots everywhere. Then there are those who have like 8 characters with 4 retainers each ruling the markets with discord notifications on price changes. I can see why people just give up and put their prices pretty low.

For me it's, "Crap... new Expac in 2 months and my retainers are full of crap... Let me see if I can clean this out and still made a little profit in the venture!"