Request for Utsusemi

[Stanislaw]

OH MY GOD DO YOU MEAN IT??! An actual response?

Bard is meant as a support job, yes? Bard has a bow, yes? Bard will have Swiftsong yes? Can bard not be an actual puller for the group, instead of one person mounting a chocobo, getting too far away from the party and only drawing the aggro of 1 or 2 mobs? I hope/suspect that BRD songs will have a good AoE and range on them, where it can stand at enough distance to continually feed the group mobs to kill.

Take for instance:

(Enemy Group)<-------------->(Bard)<-------------->(Party)

The mobs are too far out of range for 1 melee member to successfully link a group, but the Bard stands between them, has shadows, can sleep them, buff the party, do some damage and still stay alive without the guarantee of cures and stoneskin.

EDIT: Please, as a reward Stanislaw, you are free to laugh at me all you like and still get honest smiles. /bow

Couple of things.

While your argument for giving Utsusemi to BRD might sound like good reasoning, it seems to me that you're confused in thinking that a BRD's role in FFXIV will be the same as FFXI. As a BRD player in FFXI myself, whenever I was invited to merit parties I've always subbed NIN because I loved my role as a puller, and as a puller it was pretty much necessary to sub NIN lest you get pounded to death (although I will say it was still possible with a WHM sub, just harder). Was one of my most fun experiences in FFXI.

However, whereas FFXI's style of exping was more about 'setting up camp and pulling mobs to party', FFXIV's style is more 'roaming'. Therefore, BRD doesn't have to the puller. If anything, it would be more logical for the designated tank to pull mobs (attack first), especially because of how links work in FFXIV and how mobs are 'leashed' in their respective areas.

But other melees don't have ranged attack? Actually, there's quite a bit of options when it comes to ranged weapons, even for melee, because of the existence of things like Exorcism Beans which are easy to make/dirt cheap and can stack to 99. This allows all jobs to pull mobs from range if necessary.

Also, trying to use Swiftsong as a reason for a BRD to pull isn't that great either because you actually have to stop and cast Swiftsong first (especially now that movement cancels magic), then go pull the mob. And the moment you attack it, it wears off, so it's not really that great for pulling.

In conclusion, if giving BRD Utsusemi for the sake of pulling is your only reason to give it the ability, I think it's a poor reason, especially given the demerits everyone else in this thread has pointed out.

[Black_Rose]

why should bard have utsusemi?
it'd be cool if the ninja job would get it at some point, but why exactly bard?
the answer is probably somewhere already in the thread, but i'm not going thru pages of FFXI ninja hating, bleh XD.

[Xoo]

Couple of things.

While your argument for giving Utsusemi to BRD might sound like good reasoning, it seems to me that you're confused in thinking that a BRD's role in FFXIV will be the same as FFXI. As a BRD player in FFXI myself, whenever I was invited to merit parties I've always subbed NIN because I loved my role as a puller, and as a puller it was pretty much necessary to sub NIN lest you get pounded to death (although I will say it was still possible with a WHM sub, just harder). Was one of my most fun experiences in FFXI.

However, whereas FFXI's style of exping was more about 'setting up camp and pulling mobs to party', FFXIV's style is more 'roaming'. Therefore, BRD doesn't have to the puller. If anything, it would be more logical for the designated tank to pull mobs (attack first), especially because of how links work in FFXIV and how mobs are 'leashed' in their respective areas.

But other melees don't have ranged attack? Actually, there's quite a bit of options when it comes to ranged weapons, even for melee, because of the existence of things like Exorcism Beans which are easy to make/dirt cheap and can stack to 99. This allows all jobs to pull mobs from range if necessary.

Also, trying to use Swiftsong as a reason for a BRD to pull isn't that great either because you actually have to stop and cast Swiftsong first (especially now that movement cancels magic), then go pull the mob. And the moment you attack it, it wears off, so it's not really that great for pulling.

In conclusion, if giving BRD Utsusemi for the sake of pulling is your only reason to give it the ability, I think it's a poor reason, especially given the demerits everyone else in this thread has pointed out.

I think this game is moving more toward the static camp as before. Here's why: Mages regain MP at a much faster rate when standing still; Movement will cancel casting; If you are in a Stronghold party without 50's to carry you, there is little need to roam as the respawn rate is so short; Mob concentration is very dense in many places; Many of the AoE Weaponskills are gone.

Exorcism Beans, Chakrams, Throwing Daggers.. all of those have a significantly less range to them compared to that of Archer and what I will assume will carry over into the Bowharp's range. Regarding Swiftsong, I imagine the sequence of pulling might go something like this: Utsusemi/Swiftsong > Buff group > Pull 4-5 mobs > Sleep > PLD Flash the group > PLD /ra 1 mob for the group > Group Defeats the mob > PLD pulls next /ra (Until group reduced to last) > Repeat.

As far as leashing, there are many spots where a group can stand and still pull from 2 or more immediate areas without having the mobs return. Just as in XI, there were key spots to camp in a group of target mobs - same here.

Thank you for not defaulting me as a troll and giving honest feedback to my suggestion.

EDIT: The only demerits anyone gave anything in this entire thread was to FFXI, Ninja and how Utsusemi was implemented and sometimes abused in that game. Trust me, not one person gave a single shred of commentary as to why it would or would not work in this game as I have suggested.

[Xianghua]

I think this game is moving more toward the static camp as before. Here's why: Mages regain MP at a much faster rate when standing still; Movement will cancel casting; If you are in a Stronghold party without 50's to carry you, there is little need to roam as the respawn rate is so short; Mob concentration is very dense in many places; Many of the AoE Weaponskills are gone.

Exorcism Beans, Chakrams, Throwing Daggers.. all of those have a significantly less range to them compared to that of Archer and what I will assume will carry over into the Bowharp's range. Regarding Swiftsong, I imagine the sequence of pulling might go something like this: Utsusemi/Swiftsong > Buff group > Pull 4-5 mobs > Sleep > PLD Flash the group > PLD /ra 1 mob for the group > Group Defeats the mob > PLD pulls next /ra (Until group reduced to last) > Repeat.

As far as leashing, there are many spots where a group can stand and still pull from 2 or more immediate areas without having the mobs return. Just as in XI, there were key spots to camp in a group of target mobs - same here.

Thank you for not defaulting me as a troll and giving honest feedback to my suggestion.

You need to remember that right now XIV Exp revolves around AoE. Pulling mobs sleeping them is kinda pointless when you can just kill them all in less then a min. Any job can pull and you don't need shadows to do it. It will most likely still be better for tank to get on choco and aggro/run to camp. Pulling is really only needed in a game where you can only handle 1/2 mobs. Not in a game where you can handle an entire camp with ease.

[Xoo]

XI fight- pld/nin x2 Sam/nin x10 whm rdm x3 brdx2 and some blms

Yes, and what do you get when you have a group of BRD's trying to take out an NM with AoE spam/nukes? A whole bunch of dead Bards! Because Bard will not have Provoke or Taunt, and therefore hate cannot be bounced in a necessarily controlled fashion.

[Mirana]

If you really want it try post it in Japanese language and in JP forum,
not here and wait to see the response or maybe riot of JP players.

IMO if you want BRD to got utsusemi I would rather prefer new job as Ninja itself with exclusive utsusemi. Deal?

[Xoo]

You need to remember that right now XIV Exp revolves around AoE. Pulling mobs sleeping them is kinda pointless when you can just kill them all in less then a min. Any job can pull and you don't need shadows to do it. It will most likely still be better for tank to get on choco and aggro/run to camp. Pulling is really only needed in a game where you can only handle 1/2 mobs. Not in a game where you can handle an entire camp with ease.

First paragraph, last sentence. What do you get now when you have a slew of mobs to kill? - Every melee fighting his own mob and fights taking too long because they haven't realized that AoE Weaponskills don't play a key role in battle anymore; At least not through the grind levels.

[Xoo]

If you really want it try post it in Japanese language and in JP forum,
not here and wait to see the response or maybe riot of JP players.

IMO if you want BRD to got utsusemi I would rather prefer new job as Ninja itself with exclusive utsusemi. Deal?

Doesn't sound bad I guess. I don't speak Japanese.

[Xianghua]

First paragraph, last sentence. What do you get now when you have a slew of mobs to kill? - Every melee fighting his own mob and fights taking too long because they haven't realized that AoE Weaponskills don't play a key role in battle anymore. At least not through the grind levels anymore.

How are you going to sleep them? With that black mage spell that is most likely level 50? Why do you need shadows when you can get to and from mobs to camp on choco without even losing stoneskin? Utsu will do nothing that can't already be done in game.

[Xoo]

How are you going to sleep them? With that black mage spell that is most likely level 50? Why do you need shadows when you can get to and from mobs to camp on choco without even losing stoneskin? Utsu will do nothing that can't already be done in game.

With sleep songs? Sleep arrows? AoE Sleep songs? AoE Sleep arrows? Your third question has already been answered, but I'll say it again: Too many times I've seen some random single party member jump on a Choco, ride headlong to a distant group of mobs and only bring back 1-3. This after some time had passed as they tried in vain to trigger sight aggro, only to get their Choco maimed and make it back far too slowly. This given that you're fighting mobs that do aggro.