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  1. #1
    Player
    ScootPatoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Nanamo Ul-namo
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70

    Lalafell and Dwarves... Plot Hole Potential?

    As I was thinking about the First and its races, I realized that there was a bit of an inconsistency around a certain character.
    First, here's a recap of what was stated about what races are called on the Source, and what they are on the First:



    Here, we see that Dwarves are the First counterpart of Lalafell.

    We also received a sneak peek of the Dwarves:



    Now, take a look at one of the Warriors of Darkness, who is from the First, as she appeared on the Source:



    That doesn't look like a Dwarf to me. In fact, she looks like a Lalafell! I'm curious as to how Square Enix will manage to explain this. Here are some theories I came up with, and my thinking:
    1. When the Warriors of Darkness came to the Source, they transformed into the characteristics of the races closest to their original races.
      If they all drank Fantasias, I guess this could have been possible, but it seems far-fetched. When have you seen an NPC use a Fantasia? That said, it's believed that they all changed their names to better incorporate into the world, so this isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility.
      But if they transformed during the process of world-hopping, then why wouldn't our Warriors of Light? Unless my Lalafell actually would seem to look exactly like a Dwarf, even though clearly their eyes are a lot different and female Lalafell can't have facial hair. Which brings us to the next theory...
    2. Other races not "natural" to a world simply appear to us as the next closest thing.
      But, in the Live Letter, it was said that a Dwarf seeing a Lalafell might interpret the Lala's appearance as someone who forsook the Dwarf culture. I don't think this would have been mentioned unless it would be the case in the game when Dwarves see our Lalafell, so this seems unlikely.
    3. A faction or tribe of Dwarves exists on the First who don't have helmets and beards.
      For the story team to go this route would mean Dwarves might be extremely diverse, and is a broader name for small races. But then how are all dwarves described as never being without their beards? Has this happened before? Did Lamimi do this to go adventuring, and she actually has a beard to shave? (This idea seems hilarious).
    4. Female Dwarves/all Dwarves actually look exactly the same as Lalafell, and only some can grow facial hair.
      Again, I'm confused about this if Dwarves are never without their beards. Do female Dwarves just have fake beards glued to their helmets? They did mention (albeit somewhat jokingly) that under a Dwarf helmet was a Lalafell. Maybe this was meant more seriously than what was originally let on.
    (3)
    Scoot Patoot (Gilgamesh) and Nanamo Ul-namo (Lich, Balmung, et al)

  2. #2
    Player
    RenewalXVII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    84
    Character
    Marin Soriel
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    The Warriors of Darkness came to the Source via an Ascian method: they killed their physical bodies, and transcended worlds via their souls alone, inhabiting new bodies on the Source. The Devout of Darkness may not have even been a Dwarf on the Source for all we know.

    I'm pretty sure that this method and its incongruities with our character (i.e., there's no sensible way we're physically killing off our body to get a new one) was brought up at the Fanfest or an interview at the same time, and it was mentioned we would be traveling to the First via a different method, that would preserve us body and soul.
    (15)
    Last edited by RenewalXVII; 04-21-2019 at 01:54 PM. Reason: typos

  3. #3
    Player
    ScootPatoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Nanamo Ul-namo
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    I must have missed that then! Thank you!
    (0)
    Scoot Patoot (Gilgamesh) and Nanamo Ul-namo (Lich, Balmung, et al)

  4. #4
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,822
    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    I must admit, I'm resistant to the notion that the Dwarves' beards being fake and/or part of their armor. They're dwarves! They deserve to have glorious beards! Sure, they can be alt-Lalafell, but let them be Lalafell that have a coveted tradition of growing beautiful, flowing whiskers! Ah, well - what will be, will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by RenewalXVII View Post
    The Warriors of Darkness came to the Source via an Ascian method: they killed their physical bodies, and transcended worlds via their souls alone, inhabiting new bodies on the Source.
    One thing they never went into any detail about (which I found somewhat delicious): just just WHERE the bodies they came to inhabit came from? Presumably, Elidibus supplied them - but does that mean he dug up a few corpses, or that he "relieved" some living people of their bodies for the purpose? And the WoD presumably knew this or suspected it, and went along with it anyway... which isn't hard to imagine. In their desperation, they'd already resigned themselves to some thoroughly nasty business. Having fallen as far as they already had, it's not hard to imagine them seeing five additional tics to the body count as being an acceptable sacrifice...
    (7)

  5. #5
    Player
    Greven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    778
    Character
    Chris Von'greven
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    I think the beast tribe Dwarves are just type of regresses Dwarves, like the fat Miqo'tes I expect to see normal Miqo'tes as well.

    From our experience WoL/D were never from Beast Tribes but it could be as well that they are deemed as BT on The First while they are actually like normal Lalafells under their armour.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,955
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Greven View Post
    I think the beast tribe Dwarves are just type of regresses Dwarves, like the fat Miqo'tes I expect to see normal Miqo'tes as well.

    From our experience WoL/D were never from Beast Tribes but it could be as well that they are deemed as BT on The First while they are actually like normal Lalafells under their armour.
    It's just a term that some cultures adopt based on their own criteria. Ul'dah began using it so that the Monetarists could effectively create a blacklist and limit trade with groups outside of their sphere, Garlemald began using it on the basis of primal summoning(I think), and I think the Encyclopedia said that the rest of Aldenard eventually adopted it using the same criteria.
    (7)

  7. #7
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    5,024
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by "Naoki Yoshida
    You’ll be seeing the Dwarves every day. Dwarves have a number of factions their tribe is divided into and they have different competitive stances towards one another and it might look like a kid’s fight from our point of view. So, you might be the person who will be between the two fires and try and make things go well. Something like that might be released in the future. We really put it a lot of effort into that when we made them. By the way, there were a lot of SNS posts saying that the White Mage from The First, Lamimi didn’t have a helmet or beard. There is a reason for that (laugh). We are filling in the holes.
    /10characters
    (16)
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  8. #8
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
    Posts
    3,684
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    The most likely solution to this incongruity is that, like the group adopting pseudonyms for operating on the Source, "Lamimi" just went without her helmet to blend in better.

    As for the beard... well, if you take a peek at the other Dwarf image, it actually shows one such Dwarf with his helmet off... and no beard. So yeah, they are just fake beards attached to their helmets.
    (8)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.2 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]RAGING OVER DEMIATMA RNG
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  9. #9
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,955
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    The most likely solution to this incongruity is that, like the group adopting pseudonyms for operating on the Source, "Lamimi" just went without her helmet to blend in better.

    As for the beard... well, if you take a peek at the other Dwarf image, it actually shows one such Dwarf with his helmet off... and no beard. So yeah, they are just fake beards attached to their helmets.
    I won't be surprised if the "beards" are some kind of air filter, much like goblin masks. We also don't know much about the climate around Mt. Gulg.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    I'm pretty sure they actually said this would be explained in the ShB MSQ.

    I'd be surprised if we didn't learn anything about Arbert and company while we're at the First when they were likely just as famed as us (Though I expect that became infamy after they unintentionally caused the flood of light).
    (8)

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