Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Awha]

snip. . .

Sorry, by the what if statements I more so meant as a group should we base our judgement of a player around unseen factors? Or should we assume such factors off the bat and proceed accordingly?

Reason I ask is because I tend to treat people as I would not mind being treated, but as I have noticed that has lead to some interesting encounters because how I am okay with being treated seems to differ from the general soical or communally norms.

For future reference since I do not wish to cause players unnecessary grief do you think instead of using my level of tolerance as a baseline should I go based off some other metric? If so what would you suggest?

[Physic]

The sheer lengths people go to to defend bad, lazy players is just as crazy to me.

This isn't a hard game to be good at.

you are not riteous punishing people for being casual, in the casual content. if you dont want to play with casual players, dont go to a casual queue. Make a party finder, or shout for leet groups.

you wont get any because there is no logical reason to be leet in Random roulettes.

its only once per day, so time per run is kind of irrelevant.
there is no increase in reward for being better at it
it is designed to be hard to fail, especially with gear.

the reasons that SE refuses to design anything that might require the community to act in good faith, and consideration. They cant make dungeons harder, cant give better rewards for skillfull play, they cant have open dungeons, cant have blue mages in duty finder.

And even making the bar low, normalizing rewards per skill, and rigidly controlling and balancing jobs, people still find ways to attack each other over basic baby mode.

keep on throwing children off the fisher price keyboards man, dont defend bad lazy babies

[van_arn]

you are not riteous punishing people for being casual, in the casual content. if you dont want to play with casual players, dont go to a casual queue. Make a party finder, or shout for leet groups.

you wont get any because there is no logical reason to be leet in Random roulettes.

its only once per day, so time per run is kind of irrelevant.
there is no increase in reward for being better at it
it is designed to be hard to fail, especially with gear.

the reasons that SE refuses to design anything that might require the community to act in good faith, and consideration. They cant make dungeons harder, cant give better rewards for skillfull play, they cant have open dungeons, cant have blue mages in duty finder.

And even making the bar low, normalizing rewards per skill, and rigidly controlling and balancing jobs, people still find ways to attack each other over basic baby mode.

keep on throwing children off the fisher price keyboards man, dont defend bad lazy babies

Casual or hardcore isn't relevant. The party has all the tools and authority they need to decide what they feel is bad, and to replace anyone they feel is an obstruction.

Anything beyond that fact is merely a possibility, or petty moralizing.

[Physic]

Sorry, by the what if statements I more so meant as a group should we base our judgement of a player around unseen factors? Or should we assume such factors off the bat and proceed accordingly?

Reason I ask is because I tend to treat people as I would not mind being treated, but as I have noticed that has lead to some interesting encounters because how I am okay with being treated seems to differ from the general soical or communally norms.

For future reference since I do not wish to cause players unnecessary grief do you think instead of using my level of tolerance as a baseline should I go based off some other metric? If so what would you suggest?

treat people how you would wish to be treated
or
treat people what is consistent with what would be considered treating people well in the community

pick which ever standard is higher in the situation.

Assuming of course you are not attacked.

[Baxcel]

As a tank main i do small pulls only, and ill tell you why. I generally only run with my partner who is a healer main, I know he's easily stressed an can be distracted because he likes to help out with dps too. So i pull smaller so its less stress on us both, and so he gets to feel less like a walking benifect.

Now i have a rule I use when people who ain't the tank try an pull more mobs into a group were already fighting. That rule is, you pull it you tank it till im ready for it. I tell my healer to let them die if they have to, he usually won't cause he's nice lol, but that's my rule.

The reason for my rule is due to a run on the dungeon "The Burn". It being our first time in the dungeon, we were taking our time with single group pulls, working our way to the boss with a random Bard and a random Redmage.
The redmage being a, you guessed it, mentor decided to not say anything an started pulling more mobs. Over an over again, despite me telling him to stop that he wasn't the tank.

We luckily finish with minimal wipes only one on the boss, cause this was blind, first time threw for us. And because i let him tank a few mobs he pulled, never let him die, just get down to about 10%hp and took aggro, trying teach him lesson, he runs for the exit, saying. "Tank an healer you suck. Bard your ok." And bolts out..

So no i won't run by your set pace. Ill run by that's good for me and my healer, and I you kick me, your waiting for a new healer. And if you wanna pull extra, be perpared to hold that aggro because ill get to it when im ready.

[van_arn]

As a tank main i do small pulls only, and ill tell you why. I generally only run with my partner who is a healer main, I know he's easily stressed an can be distracted because he likes to help out with dps too. So i pull smaller so its less stress on us both, and so he gets to feel less like a walking benifect.

Now i have a rule I use when people who ain't the tank try an pull more mobs into a group were already fighting. That rule is, you pull it you tank it till im ready for it. I tell my healer to let them die if they have to, he usually won't cause he's nice lol, but that's my rule.

The reason for my rule is due to a run on the dungeon "The Burn". It being our first time in the dungeon, we were taking our time with single group pulls, working our way to the boss with a random Bard and a random Redmage.
The redmage being a, you guessed it, mentor decided to not say anything an started pulling more mobs. Over an over again, despite me telling him to stop that he wasn't the tank.

We luckily finish with minimal wipes only one on the boss, cause this was blind, first time threw for us. And because i let him tank a few mobs he pulled, never let him die, just get down to about 10%hp and took aggro, trying teach him lesson, he runs for the exit, saying. "Tank an healer you suck. Bard your ok." And bolts out..

So no i won't run by your set pace. Ill run by that's good for me and my healer, and I you kick me, your waiting for a new healer. And if you wanna pull extra, be perpared to hold that aggro because ill get to it when im ready.

The package deals are why I quit tanking back in 2.x after I downed Twintania. That way I can always fire the tank if necessary, and if they brought anyone with them it's probably a dps that'll be replaced with a better performer anyway.

That and I can just heal through any tantrums a tank might have, not to mention tank for them if they refuse to do their job.

You have less tantrum insurance if you play a tank rather than a healer.

[Ibuki-]

Or you can simply adapt to majority wants and not selfishly "me myself and I" would do wonders. Another simple courtesy of communication will go far, too.

[OkibaKey]

Or you can simply adapt to majority wants and not selfishly "me myself and I" would do wonders. Another simple courtesy of communication will go far, too.

This too, I love pulling big but I always check the gear of the healer first and if they have the sprout or they say they're new then slow it is.

But reading comments like; "Oh I just let the tank-dps-healer die lmao cuz i dun't wuanna adapt" is beyond dumb. People are selfish.

[Physic]

Casual or hardcore isn't relevant. The party has all the tools and authority they need to decide what they feel is bad, and to replace anyone they feel is an obstruction.

Anything beyond that fact is merely a possibility, or petty moralizing.

incorrect. They gave the party the tools to kick people if they have to, that doesnt mean its ok to kick people for any reason.

Just because its hard to ajudicate kicking doesnt mean its ok to do whatever you want.


Its clear SE views participating in the duty finder, as an agreement you owe a certain level of tolerance to other players, thats why there is a penalty for abandoning the party. Kicking people for arbitrary reasons goes against the spirit of the random duty finder. They leave the kick functionality in so players have the tools to deal with bad situations. Kicking is not designed to be a means of filtering out sub optimal players. Thats what party finder, and guilds are for.

if you are not willing to make a serious attempt to work with players of various skill levels, experience and you should not be entering the duty finder.

the fact that 3 people want to do something wrong, does not make it right.

[van_arn]

incorrect. They gave the party the tools to kick people if they have to, that doesnt mean its ok to kick people for any reason.

Just because its hard to ajudicate kicking doesnt mean its ok to do whatever you want.


Its clear SE views participating in the duty finder, as an agreement you owe a certain level of tolerance to other players, thats why there is a penalty for abandoning the party. Kicking people for arbitrary reasons goes against the spirit of the random duty finder. They leave the kick functionality in so players have the tools to deal with bad situations. Kicking is not designed to be a means of filtering out sub optimal players. Thats what party finder, and guilds are for.

if you are not willing to make a serious attempt to work with players of various skill levels, experience and you should not be entering the duty finder.

the fact that 3 people want to do something wrong, does not make it right.

The fact that the party can kick players for obstruction, where obstruction is very loosely defined, means it really doesn't matter what your opinion on right or wrong is.

Feel free to kick severe underperformers if you feel they are an obstruction, because the votes determine if they're an obstruction or not.

The rest is you moralizing, but that doesn't matter.