Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Insertcoins]

Jeeze.. I didn't think this would go into the 30's in pages. Why is this so crazy? Look I get that it was a dick move to kick that tank but sadly thats life. The party pretty much makes the rules and if 3 to 7 people want wall to wall pulls then the tank either has to try and go with the flow or leave. Thats what I had to do, I foolishly leveled a warrior first and had to learn super fast what the playerbase expects. I'm still learning as 24 mans are my biggest fear, but if I can wall to wall pull in dungeons then I can't give anymore excuses why someone else can't as I SUCCCCCCCCKKKKK!

[Granyala]

Jeeze.. I didn't think this would go into the 30's in pages. Why is this so crazy? Look I get that it was a dick move to kick that tank but sadly thats life. The party pretty much makes the rules and if 3 to 7 people want wall to wall pulls then the tank either has to try and go with the flow or leave. Thats what I had to do, I foolishly leveled a warrior first and had to learn super fast what the playerbase expects. I'm still learning as 24 mans are my biggest fear, but if I can wall to wall pull in dungeons then I can't give anymore excuses why someone else can't as I SUCCCCCCCCKKKKK!

24man are actually pretty boring tank wise. Nothing much to pay attention to, no tank swaps etc.

[Alleo]

I just dont understand why some people are so kick happy. I only kick those that are either really rude, refuse to attack at all or that hinders us to clear the dungeon. Heck we had one healer once in Baelsar wall that was quite bad but we adapted and went on. Sadly the person was that bad that we were not able to finish the end boss thus we needed a replacement. That is honestly the only good reason in my eyes to kick someone from dungeons.

Kicking a tank even though he can hold aggro, just because he is not pulling the numbers you want is just bad. There is a reason why SE did for a short time introduce walls to stop people from mass pulling dungeons. The tank was still doing his job and if you dont have someone that jumps into this for you, you might wait way longer for an replacement than just finishing the dungeon with the tank.

[WaterShield]

I just dont understand why some people are so kick happy. I only kick those that are either really rude, refuse to attack at all or that hinders us to clear the dungeon. Heck we had one healer once in Baelsar wall that was quite bad but we adapted and went on. Sadly the person was that bad that we were not able to finish the end boss thus we needed a replacement. That is honestly the only good reason in my eyes to kick someone from dungeons.

Kicking a tank even though he can hold aggro, just because he is not pulling the numbers you want is just bad. There is a reason why SE did for a short time introduce walls to stop people from mass pulling dungeons. The tank was still doing his job and if you dont have someone that jumps into this for you, you might wait way longer for an replacement than just finishing the dungeon with the tank.

This is a two way street. If the tank refuses to even try to better himself to the bare minimum level of acceptable performance (in an engame dungeon where everything hits like a wet noodle) Then people can and will kick them. It's the exact same as kicking any other role that's being lazy and not trying. Tanks don't get a free pass just because they picked the "in demand" role.

[Granyala]

This is a two way street. If the tank refuses to even try to better himself to the bare minimum level of acceptable performance (in an engame dungeon where everything hits like a wet noodle) Then people can and will kick them. It's the exact same as kicking any other role that's being lazy and not trying. Tanks don't get a free pass just because they picked the "in demand" role.

The game sets the "bare minimum" and single group pulls ARE the bare minimum.

[WaterShield]

The game sets the "bare minimum" and single group pulls ARE the bare minimum.

When you're playing with other people... they set the bare minimum. Also oddly enough, the game encourages mass pulling in endgame dungeons due to the way they are designed.

Edit: Also it bears adding, I am not advocating being abusive with tanks. If the group wants to go faster and the tank decides that his or her comfort (laziness) is more important... then I do not see why they have any room to complain if they are kicked. If they try, and somehow fail to pull this off (oh boy) then whatever.

TLDR: When it appears that someone is being exceptionally lazy... people are allowed to be upset and to not play with them.

[Granyala]

When you're playing with other people... they set the bare minimum. Also oddly enough, the game encourages mass pulling in endgame dungeons due to the way they are designed.

I don't give a hoot what people want to define to suit their agendas.

Per definition, the bare minimum is pulling one group at a time. You will complete the dungeon that way w/o issues.

Everything else is extra. Sure, extras are nice and us experienced players notice the lack of incoming damage and see that as encouragement to pull like ham, that does not mean that a tank that holds aggro one group at the time does not do his job. He does it suboptimally but he does the essentials. A.k.a. "bare minimum".

[Alleo]

This is a two way street. If the tank refuses to even try to better himself to the bare minimum level of acceptable performance (in an engame dungeon where everything hits like a wet noodle) Then people can and will kick them. It's the exact same as kicking any other role that's being lazy and not trying. Tanks don't get a free pass just because they picked the "in demand" role.

But are single group pulls really compareable to a DPS that only hits one button? If the tank does not just afk between pulls, pulls it steadly and holds aggro, why is the person lazy? I had my fair share of lazy or bad people in dungeons, even really bad tanks who died on the first trash pull or that could not hold aggro at all. But seemingly that person was able to do that. So lets put a bit of hyperbole in it: If we had a group that was somehow that good together that they would be able to pull a huuuge amount of monsters that normally would not be possible. Wouldnt that mean that anyone that would not do that is lazy? Where is the line?

Ever see this? It came from a GM.

Wasnt this before the ToS changed to the more harsher rules? Also I am quite sure that difference in playstyles still does not mean that you have to accept any kick. If you kick someone because he is wearing the wrong glamour and you talk about it then I am quite sure one could punish you for that kick. In the end that was their fail save answer so that people are able to kick people that are just simply too bad to clear a dungeon. Kicking someone for using Garuda instead of Ifrit would surely not fall under that.

[Vahlnir]

But are single group pulls really compareable to a DPS that only hits one button? If the tank does not just afk between pulls, pulls it steadly and holds aggro, why is the person lazy? I had my fair share of lazy or bad people in dungeons, even really bad tanks who died on the first trash pull or that could not hold aggro at all. But seemingly that person was able to do that. So lets put a bit of hyperbole in it: If we had a group that was somehow that good together that they would be able to pull a huuuge amount of monsters that normally would not be possible. Wouldnt that mean that anyone that would not do that is lazy? Where is the line?



Wasnt this before the ToS changed to the more harsher rules? Also I am quite sure that difference in playstyles still does not mean that you have to accept any kick. If you kick someone because he is wearing the wrong glamour and you talk about it then I am quite sure one could punish you for that kick. In the end that was their fail save answer so that people are able to kick people that are just simply too bad to clear a dungeon. Kicking someone for using Garuda instead of Ifrit would surely not fall under that.

I wouldn't mind a link to their new rules just so we can all pick through it. Couldn't seem to find them anywhere myself.

[Feidam]

I wouldn't mind a link to their new rules just so we can all pick through it. Couldn't seem to find them anywhere myself.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1