Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Tlachtga]

you know, its kind of crazy to me, that a lot of people take these basic dungeons seriously enough to want to kick some one over effeciency.

Yall treating the public swimming pool like its an olympic track meet.

The sheer lengths people go to to defend bad, lazy players is just as crazy to me.

This isn't a hard game to be good at.

[Granyala]

you know, its kind of crazy to me, that a lot of people take these basic dungeons seriously enough to want to kick some one over effeciency.

*shrug* I only kick people if they prevent the group from progressing, so as you already guessed, barring s/o DCing and not coming back, that never happens in dungeons.

Personally, I treat every content the same, whether it is a savage raid or a story primal.
I try to play my role to the best of my abilities. Sometimes that may be overkill, other times not enough.

People aren't defending "bad, lazy players". The tank that was kicked in the OP was not a "bad, lazy player". That's the point. He was playing the game as intended and preferred to pull single groups rather than mass pull. Which is perfectly acceptable. He wasn't afking, he wasn't losing threat, he wasn't playing "poorly".

If the group is overgeared (we usually are in expert dungeons, even if they are freshly released) and it wasn't his first time (I never mass pull on my first visit either), then yes:

he was playing poorly. No other way to word it.

Ofc it is not a kickable offense to pull single groups in my book. I may be annoyed by it but I don't give people grief over it.

[Ekimmak]

For the most part, I'll agree with pulling large is the way people "expect" tanks to play, but if I'm not the tank of a run, I won't hold against those who don't.

And I also think that any DPS that thinks they know better, and pulls things that a tank tells them specifically not to, does not deserve to be saved from their own arrogance. I've only needed to say "Don't pull until the current mob is dead" once, and I have no regrets on leaving them to their own demise for acting anyway.

[Granyala]

With big groups its not allways easy to even see which ones you dont have agro on if they arent on your agro list due to being pulled by someone else.
Also the one who pulls gets a lead on the agro table so you are making life a whole lot more difficult for the tank.

To be blunt:
With incompetent tanks: yes.
With tanks that know their class: nope. Frankly put: I don't care whether a DPS pulls for me or not, I get aggro within 1-2 globals anyway.
Same goes for "ERMAGAWD there is a HoT ticking on me when I pull". Seriously, use your skills and it isn't a problem at all.

It used to be different, aye. But they buffed threat generation through the roof, these days.

The only problem that I can see, is if a DPS pulls more than my gear can handle. Then it will be a wipe and that wipe will teach the DPS not to pull for me again. Considering that I usually pull wall to wall in ex dungeons, there isn't anything more to pull anyway. SE made sure of that by putting in doors every 3 trash groups. *yawn*

In my own case, I kick tanks that refuse to pick up adds whether a dps pulled them or not.

And rightly so, because once the DPS gets damage -> he gets healed. That means my healer is next if the DPS dies. It makes 0 sense for me to punish my healer for the DPS' incompetence, so I will tank the adds. If that means that the inc DPS > HPS and we wipe, so be it. Then the group will scold the DPS together.

Back in the days of old, when it really was a pain if s/o pulled for the tank my MO was: "you pull it, you tank it!".
I no longer see the necessity for that these days, because picking up stays is easy and painless. Esp as a DRK with Abyssal drain.

[swiss_Momo]

if it's a lvl 70 dungeon and everyone is decently geared, then go ham for that sweet sweet steel cyclone/abyssal drain self heal or go home.
Tanking dungeons is the most braindead role in the game together with netflix healing, so tanks don't have any special privilege that should keep them from being kicked for "differences in playstyle"

[kidalutz]

if it's a lvl 70 dungeon and everyone is decently geared, then go ham for that sweet sweet steel cyclone/abyssal drain self heal or go home.
Tanking dungeons is the most braindead role in the game together with netflix healing, so tanks don't have any special privilege that should keep them from being kicked for "differences in playstyle"

I can only assume you say this because you arent the one that has to set everything up for positionals so you dont get chewed out at the end of the run. The tank will even if they're moving to save thier life because the healer cant keep them up once the tanks CDs are busted and the DPS is STILL taking forever to down the pull. Tanking might have an easier time causing initial aggro but Paladins AoEs dont even add aggro and Flash does no damage. So you do have to do alot more than you think it entails. Depending on the tank.

[swiss_Momo]

I can only assume you say this because you arent the one that has to set everything up for positionals so you dont get chewed out at the end of the run. The tank will even if they're moving to save thier life because the healer cant keep them up once the tanks CDs are busted and the DPS is STILL taking forever to down the pull. Tanking might have an easier time causing initial aggro but Paladins AoEs dont even add aggro and Flash does no damage. So you do have to do alot more than you think it entails. Depending on the tank.

AoE skills don't have positionals though, so the whole "holding the mobs somewhat still" argument doesn't count until the trash pull is down to the last 3 mobs or so, and at that point you can usually just stun the one casting an AoE

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

When i tank i give dps 3 strikes on pull If they run in once no proplem ill get off

2x is annoying but still get off them

3rd i let them die and votekick

[ShadowYomi]

At this point just remove the penalty for leaving and there would probably be less kicks.

[Reylinn]

I'm not in love with kicking anyone for playing bad. Player skill is relative and a group of raiders might kick people for non optimal stances etc. Kicking is for DC, afk, or being a jerk. Otherwise you're griefing and should probably be reported.