Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[Crystal_Raven]

I play this game for fun and the story. If I am mediocre in raids and a dungeon, oh well. That's not my main reason for playing.

That's good though? I'm not sure what you're here for.

We're talking about the people that are far below the mediocre/average skill level.

[AxlStream]

Jump potions are the enemy. People use them and think they can immediately start doing end-game content. There's a very good reason why there's a level 15 quest that teaches the basic principles of the class you're using in several arena stages. But I think this should be mandatory rather than kind of hidden to the side.

I have seen jump potion players that would embarass even 1.0 veterans with how much better they are. People on this game just have no shame and are 100% okay with being carried and we let them. That is the real issue.

[Critical-Limit]

I understand having these expectations in raid or Ex fights. But in dungeons? I use dungeons and 24 man to practice jobs I’m learning. I for example understand enmity control.

But I wasn’t fully understanding it with dps stance. Like how do I balance? How do I learn? Do dungeons. I had to get made fun of, or attacked cuz I didn’t notice a Tiny soldier hitting my blm, I apologized, and improved. I tanked that big car thing to the wall. Yelled at, learned to center it(grimly dark)

Now I’m a very good functioning war. But I had to piss people off to get there. If you get mad at me in a dungeon. Where am I suppose to practice?

[Kytrin]

It's not a crime. We can and we should have certain standards. Unfortunately some people... have comprehension issues. To put it mildly. And it doesn't help that there's also a mentality that you can play however you want to. While it is absolutely true you don't have to play like the vast majority if you don't want to, there are still certain things you should still be aware of.

As a samurai main for example, I don't min/max in the slightest and I default to a 2 sen opener no matter who or what is in my party, but at the same time I'm acutely aware of positionals, kenki management, aoe rotation, and how to goad/diversion as needed. I expect my tanks to be able to adequately hold aggro from me, or let me know if they're having trouble, and my healers to not develop tunnel vision as they dps/heal.

It's a little harder to have standards with mechanics since being new and learning are things, but definitely by the time they get to expert and raids or trials of any kind there should be enough awareness to know "Oh gee... there's a bright puddle on the ground and it's not [insert any player skill that leaves a circle effect] I should probably move out of it. Right now."

[Kytrin]

I understand having these expectations in raid or Ex fights. But in dungeons? I use dungeons and 24 man to practice jobs I’m learning. I for example understand enmity control.

But I wasn’t fully understanding it with dps stance. Like how do I balance? How do I learn? Do dungeons. I had to get made fun of, or attacked cuz I didn’t notice a Tiny soldier hitting my blm, I apologized, and improved. I tanked that big car thing to the wall. Yelled at, learned to center it(grimly dark)

Now I’m a very good functioning war. But I had to piss people off to get there. If you get mad at me in a dungeon. Where am I suppose to practice?

Folks who are obviously leveling and learning should get a lot of slack I think. You're learning. It's expected you'll screw up. Anyone who expects someone who is lvling a job to have it down cold is being a bit too harsh. I can understand the expectation that you'd have adequate gear, but literally everything else should get cut a lot of slack.

[Lynesse]

I understand having these expectations in raid or Ex fights. But in dungeons? I use dungeons and 24 man to practice jobs I’m learning. I for example understand enmity control.

But I wasn’t fully understanding it with dps stance. Like how do I balance? How do I learn? Do dungeons. I had to get made fun of, or attacked cuz I didn’t notice a Tiny soldier hitting my blm, I apologized, and improved. I tanked that big car thing to the wall. Yelled at, learned to center it(grimly dark)

Now I’m a very good functioning war. But I had to piss people off to get there. If you get mad at me in a dungeon. Where am I suppose to practice?

You're brave. I'm sorry you've had to go through this. I glue myself to my tank friend because I know he'll jump to my defense if need be.

Everyone needs to understand that the game design is obtuse. It's made to confuse and overwhelm players. It's also made to be memorized. Their design philosophy of die-until-you-learn is a guilt-ridden one, and when something is powered by guilt, it's almost always destructive.

Guilt is actually why we run into so many problems with encounter and class balance. It sounds bizarre, but it's the truth.

It's easy for a developer to feel a sense of guilt when players beat their designs too easily. They rack their brains trying to come up with new ways to challenge players, and when they fail, they feel bad about themselves (guilt) -- and resort to trickery and memorization to balance the scales. Sometimes they even become spiteful; that too is a form of guilt.

It bleeds into the rest of the game and the community.

[DPZ2]

Jump potions are the enemy. People use them and think they can immediately start doing end-game content.

Jump potions do NOT get you to end game. Never have, never will. You still have to perform reasonably in current content before you hit max level.

A better place to place blame is Palace of the Dead, which is another means of advancing levels quickly, complete with learning bad habits in instances.

[hydralus]

Speaking of standards, there was a MSQ story run where the MT told the offtank to active sword oath because he was doing the tanking. The other tank goes, 'lol it doesn't matter'.

And he's right, it doesn't matter. Yet imagine being SO LAZY that pressing a single button to do an extra 30% damage (and not fighting the other tank for aggro) for the next 30 minutes is too much of a hassle.

[Feidam]

Honestly, it’s not expectations that are the problem in general but the poor behavior that can go along with them. Minus the outliers on both sides, I bet the middle could adjust and respectfully assist those lagging behind thereby move towards the outcome they want. You used to see this in the old school era or mmos. Today however the attitude tends to be it’s not my job. So it just remains a vicious cycle.

[Ilan]

I understand having these expectations in raid or Ex fights. But in dungeons? I use dungeons and 24 man to practice jobs I’m learning. I for example understand enmity control.

But I wasn’t fully understanding it with dps stance. Like how do I balance? How do I learn? Do dungeons. I had to get made fun of, or attacked cuz I didn’t notice a Tiny soldier hitting my blm, I apologized, and improved. I tanked that big car thing to the wall. Yelled at, learned to center it(grimly dark)

Now I’m a very good functioning war. But I had to piss people off to get there. If you get mad at me in a dungeon. Where am I suppose to practice?

Let me ask you some questions:

Do you say when you are new to a dungeon?
Do you try to carry out give advice, that people give you? Not talking about the "omg tank you are a ..... tank it like there you .... ......."
Do you read the tooltips of your skills?
Do you use your defensive cooldowns? Propper usage comes with experience, but not using them at all or light up like a christmas tree before even pulling screams for rants from healers and that rightfully so.
Do you try to do your best in every given situation?

If you can answer all these questions with yes, you are not a player that most people here refer to.

Eriane_Elis Jump potions are not the enemy here, people that refuse to learn are and that goes through the whole playerbase starting by 1.0 players up to people who just started with the game.