[IDEA] Limit Break - ShB

[Jonnycbad]

If anything LB should either be individual to each player or separated by role. Not fond of the party share thing since most encounters have me not bothering with LB at all.

If every player had their own individual limit break, then they would need to rebalance the entire game to account for what is, in essence, a new and powerful cooldown. And then that's what it becomes-- a cooldown as part of your rotation. It becomes less special.

Secondly, every job already has their own personal "limit break". It's called Level 50 CD or the job gauge skills, and it features such things as Pitch Perfect, Nastrond, Bloodspiller, Hallowed Ground, Benediction, Turret Overload, Foul, Verholy/Verflare, Fey Union, Sleeve Draw, etc. Powerful or strategic moves to be used in a pinch for great effect. That's what a limit break is defined as, right?


I think they DO need to change Ranged Physical limit breaks because they're slightly weaker than Caster's (though they have a 30' range instead if 25'). I think it should do more considering it's trickier to aim (you don't place a reticule, you just target a mob and it makes a line). Maybe they could make it conal, or add a small DoT (but not snapshot any buffs) that allows it to catch up to caster LB. I think they should add a potent Regen/Refresh effect onto Healer LB1/LB2 and maybe see more use in dungeons where a boss has more HP than what an LB1 or LB2 would deal, yet the healer is out of MP and the rest of the party is near death. It would heal the party up and give them a 10-15second regen/refresh to get back in the game. The tank LB1 and LB2 could add a powerful damage-spikes effect to the party that's like 100-150 potency Vengeance style-attack, or maybe a Stoneskin effect instead of damage% down. Imagine if tank LB gave everyone a shield worth 25-100% of their HP and lasted until the shield decays from absorbing damage, instead of it being a 10-12 second duration -50% damage down?

[MagiusNecros]

If every player had their own individual limit break, then they would need to rebalance the entire game to account for what is, in essence, a new and powerful cooldown. And then that's what it becomes-- a cooldown as part of your rotation. It becomes less special.

They already factor in LB into the balancing of raid fights so I don't see an issue with rebalancing. *shrug*

[Jonnycbad]

They already factor in LB into the balancing of raid fights so I don't see an issue with rebalancing. *shrug*

They do not. This was stated before in interviews. It's a bonus option meant to help you recover or clear faster. Limit Break damage is never required except in rare instances like Ultimate Raids, or when attempting a new Savage Raid at the onset of it being opened, when everyone is at the minimum iLvl.

I think Yoshi said they approximately base raid boss HP off of:

-Total DPS of 4 DPS doing standard rotations + 2 tanks in tank stance (doing enmity combos) over 10-12 min with minimum ilvl.

Then, they subtract 15% from that to account for mechanics, less than perfect rotations, 1-2 deaths and then you arrive at the boss's HP. What wasn't accounted for in raid boss HP, was Healer DPS, tanks in DPS stance, stat potions, food, and limit break damage. Through those aforementioned extra things, players were able to topple new raids in min ilvl. Not intended by devs, but not unwelcomed either.

Remember, Yoshi said numerous times in past interviews that they never EXPECTED players to beat savage raids at minimum ilvl. They intentionally ALLOWED players to ATTEMPT to challenge savage raids at minimum ilvl, so they can learn the first few phases of mechanics, while simultaneously increaseing their ilvl over time from normal raid gear and tomestone gear until they have the proper DPS to clear. Hardcore players, being as clever as they are, took advantage of numerous creative ways to increase their survivability (VIT overmelds) and extra sources of damage (healers with accuracy gear; tanks with STR melds and stance dancing; stat pots, shield crit HP LB meter cheesing) to beat them. We think of it as a no-brainer now, but healer DPS was not something that even existed until final coil or Gordias Savage, really.

Devs knowing this, it's unknown if these things are now taken into account since healer DPS no longer relies on accuracy, and tank DPS has increased vastly. But I still suspect limit break damage is not taken into account, because that would presume that melee LB is the default only proper use of LB, wherein I would imagine when designing the fights, the LB is sort of a wildcard SOS type move

[PyurBlue]

Caster LB shouldn't change. Ranged is the one with an issue as it's weaker and being a line AoE doesn't provide any meaningful advantage. I think the simplest way to help it fill its niche would be to change it from a line AoE to a cone. The far end of the cone would be bigger than caster AoE to make up for the reduced damage. Such a wide cone would be desirable in situations where you need to hit spaced out enemies, like the keys in O10. I also like the idea of adding a support function to it. Keep the low damage compared to other LB's, but then add a free party wide refresh, palisade, or both on top of the damage effect.

I'm not sure about having a DoT LB though, as it would need to do more damage than the other LB's, but in doing so would make the other LB's less desirable unless the DoT was stretched out over a really long time perhaps? DPS LB is all about how much total damage is done. It doesn't matter if it's all at once or over time, as long as it makes the fight shorter.

[Shougun]

I like the idea of the support job (ranged) getting a support oriented skill. Would there be enough benefit to a ranged LB that gives room wide buff to your party and debuff to the enemy? Shorter cast time than the other LBs (the fancy animation can last a while, I'm just saying less animation lock).

Party:
HP & MP Regen (less healing than healer LB, but this has resource regen at tier 1)
Physical & Magic Attack Up (1-3%)
Haste (tier 3 can cut time off longer cooldown abilities)

Enemy:
DoT
Physical & Magic Attack / Defense Down (1-3%)
Slow (most likely to be resisted by bosses)

The DoT + a full alive party dealing good damage would bring the total damage of the LB closer to weaker LB (but still not superior just "its not bad damage, not the most though"). However while still less total damage at least unless the room was full of monsters (this being room wide could mean a lot of damage then) there is still the hp/regen/and a few extra seconds knocked off your cooldowns (tank super moves coming back around faster could be an important concept to some ultimate fights).

You could simplify the amount of buffs but I feel like part of the fun of the spell would be seeing a bunch of icons appear lol (like watching bad breath go off, just extra excitement).

Perhaps making this a sort of "we're not SoL yet let's keep this ship sailing smoothly" sort of skill, while the others are more like "we need a result NOW". So less damage than damage ones, less healing the healing ones, but brings back resources and abilities sooner and does a bit of both of the other LBs which can be helpful when you don't necessarily need to burst, mass raise, or mass shield anything.

[Seraphor]

They already factor in LB into the balancing of raid fights so I don't see an issue with rebalancing. *shrug*

I dont think they factor in everyone having a LB.
2 tank LBs, 2 full party recovers, and 4 huge damage spikes.

[ShariusTC]

LB3 heal should recover MP for all pt member as well, not just the one who down

[Llugen]

The sad irony of the limit break is that no one wants to use it. And in that vein, please please please do not make me LB any more than I already have to, thank you.

I'd be interested in a more multidimensional LB system, rather than just the five we have, but it would be difficult for them to balance probably. Say each individual melee LB gives something different to the party on top of just single target damage, and the tanks LB gives boosted magic defense for DRK and boosted physical defense for PLD on top of the damage reduction it already gives.


It's tragic that the "coolest" skills in the game are looked on with disdain because they are personal losses.

[NobleWinter]

I think it would be neat if Ranged DPS were the only class that could use partial limit break bars. Let's say they could trigger an LB that consumed 50% of a single LB bar dropping the total amount held by the party. This would remove all Debuffs including weakness and instantly fill the party's resources for TP and MP. It would be a setback in terms of DPS from using a Melee or Caster LB but could set the ship aright during a Rez fest when Healer LB 3 isn't available yet without ruining the chance to get an LB3 later. It would also be available before the first limit break bar is filled. Being able to remove Vulnerability Stacks that otherwise might wipe the party would be really interesting.