Pet AI Rework Suggestion

[Kalise]

* Pets now have an Auto Attack

* Primary pet skills no longer have cast times (Wind Blade, Embrace)

* Primary pet skills are cast upon you using a GCD skill

* Secondary pet skills and Enkindle skills are now oGCD

Bonus idea:

* Demi-Bahamut is now summoned via ground targeter and will remain where he is stood unless combat ends or his target moves out of his range (Where he'll move towards them)

The idea being creating more synergy between Summoner/Scholar where their actions directly correlate to their pets dealing more damage (With then SMN getting Ruin IV procs too) - This also allows the balancing of Scholar a bit easier around fairy heals, as it will no longer be auto-healing on its own and will be tied to your GCD heal skills as an additional potency boost.

In addition, secondary skills being oGCD's means that they should be usable even while moving, and in addition, cast times are removed so that skills don't get queued and thus the now oGCD skills can be used at the moment they're pressed.

[Kurando]

So you're saying Embrace will have insta-cast? This would have to be turned in to an ability, and because of that no doubt it will be nerfed in potency (just like Whispering Dawn) to reflect the change or Physick would be buffed.
Embrace would also no longer benefit from Rouse, making the potency increase from it worthless. Also you said auto attack for pets, so I'm assuming you include the fairy? Why does it need a DPS auto attack, SCH already brings plenty of it itself.

Wind Blade to instant ain't so much a bad thing though, it means Contagion had more chance of going off correctly as opposed to it requiring multiple clicks, because it doesn't always register the first time. The Bahamut changes seem ok, considering it's actions have a lot of range it could work in most environments (i.e. not chasing mobs).

[Kalise]

So you're saying Embrace will have insta-cast? This would have to be turned in to an ability, and because of that no doubt it will be nerfed in potency (just like Whispering Dawn) to reflect the change or Physick would be buffed.
Embrace would also no longer benefit from Rouse, making the potency increase from it worthless.

Any particular reason why instant cast means "Ability"?

Typically "Abilities" are oGCD's. But Embrace would remain a GCD action, just instant.

Potency nerf... Is to be expected, given it no longer having a 2s cast.

Though how much, given that it will only be tied to your GCD heals now instead of auto-firing whenever the fairy exists near people below 80% life, is hard to say.

Rouse, probably could do with an overhaul anyway given how limited it already is for SCH.

Also you said auto attack for pets, so I'm assuming you include the fairy? Why does it need a DPS auto attack, SCH already brings plenty of it itself.

I wasn't sure about adding in fairy to the AA addition. So I left it vague instead of specifying anything.

DPS AA for fairy could be interesting so that it wouldn't be literally useless for the majority of the time (Especially with this new Embrace tied to GCD heals) - Though I could maybe make a case for it also having a weak GCD ability for it to use alongside your damaging GCD's...

I had also thought about letting the fairy have a "Healing" AA where it will continuously heal players for a small amount... But this would then have the similar effect as current fairy where it's passive healing while you're spamming damage which is causing some balance issues as is.

Either way, this would be a concern for fine tuning balance, my initial focus lies in trying to iron out the mechanics of pets and their finicky ability usages due to things like cast times and everything being queued as GCD skills.

Wind Blade to instant ain't so much a bad thing though, it means Contagion had more chance of going off correctly as opposed to it requiring multiple clicks, because it doesn't always register the first time. The Bahamut changes seem ok, considering it's actions have a lot of range it could work in most environments (i.e. not chasing mobs).

Yeah, with Wind Blade being instant and Contagion being oGCD it should be the case where Contagion is fired off the second you press the button, rather than some point in the future after 1-20 clicks of the button... Maybe...

With Bahamut change being focused around the fact that while he DOES have plenty of range, he gets on people's nerves by spawning like 2 ilms away from the SMN and thus blocking everyone's view... The only issue with this change is it might make him feel a bit like MCH Turrets, though the fact that he'll move with his target if relevant (Though, shouldn't happen too much given his limited duration and range as well as you not being too likely to drop him in a poor location right before a boss moves a long distance)

It's also to note that Bahamut will also get benefit from Akh Morn also now being oGCD so he'll be more consistent with its cast to boot. As well as having some AA's between Wyrmwaves you make him cast with GCD's.

[JunseiKei]

So you're saying Embrace will have insta-cast? This would have to be turned in to an ability, and because of that no doubt it will be nerfed in potency (just like Whispering Dawn) to reflect the change or Physick would be buffed.

That would be unnecessary. What was being proposed is Embrace would activate on a GCD from the SCH anyway. On top of that, there are still cooldowns, even with instantly activating spells/weaponskills. It just means that the fairies can heal while you tell them to move (following you or placing them), but there would still be a 2 to 3 second cooldown. It doesn't need to be turned into an ability. Turning it into an ability removes ALL defensively oriented buffs from effecting them: Rouse, Fey Illumination, Nature's Minne, Mantra, Convalescence, Defiance or triggering the occasional Divine Veil for you. That unto itself is enough of a nerf to not warrant a potency reduction, in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind this as long as offensive GCD skills on SCH also triggered Embrace to be cast. Maybe something like your target's target.

[Kurando]

That would be unnecessary. What was being proposed is Embrace would activate on a GCD from the SCH anyway.....

Ok so what would be the GCDs you would use to activate Embrace? Now the first one at get that actually can target an ally is Lustrate at lvl 50, so up until that level the fairy would have no way to be commanded to use Embrace if we base it around this idea. What about multiple target GCDs such as Idomability and Sacred Soil, how do you choose who to target with Embrace in this situation, because currently you can not. What if the SCH has no GCDs available for whatever reason, that would mean no fairy Embrace.

We could use PvP SCH as a better example on how this works. When summoned, Eos's Embrace is insta-cast (and it's still a spell) but it only goes off when you use an healing action on a target, but considering there are no multiple target heals to use in this mode it's quite easy to specify the intended target. However considering the abilities and jobs are balanced much different in PvP, it's not too easy to replicate how it works in PvE.

As for the defensive oriented buff debate (Rouse, Fey Illum, Mantra etc), considering Whispering Dawn benefited from all these effects when it was a spell means there is nothing to stop Embrace being sent down the same route. Buff Physick (closer to Cure, Benefic), nerf Embrace and there you have SCH taking advantage of the heal buffs instead of the pet. Also the fairy doesn't really suffering from movement issues much anyway (unlike SMN pets), so being able insta-cast just doesn't seem like it's necessary in comparison..

[Kalise]

Ok so what would be the GCDs you would use to activate Embrace?

Physick

Adloquium

Now the first one at get that actually can target an ally is Lustrate at lvl 50

Lustrate is an oGCD

What about multiple target GCDs such as Idomability and Sacred Soil, how do you choose who to target with Embrace in this situation, because currently you can not.

Firstly, when using an AoE, Fairy would simply do standard AI things. Heal the person with the lowest percentage HP.

Secondly, Indomitability and Sacred Soil are both oGCDs

What if the SCH has no GCDs available for whatever reason, that would mean no fairy Embrace.

You can't ever not have Physick or Adlo available, unless you're out of MP.

We could use PvP SCH as a better example on how this works. When summoned, Eos's Embrace is insta-cast (and it's still a spell) but it only goes off when you use an healing action on a target

That's literally how I'm suggesting it works.

Also the fairy doesn't really suffering from movement issues much anyway (unlike SMN pets), so being able insta-cast just doesn't seem like it's necessary in comparison..

It's not just movement issues that this is designed to fix, but also ability queuing, which is made infinitely worse by having cast time skills. With Fairy being the worst because Embrace is 2 second cast time (Compared to Garuda-Egi's Wind Blade at 1 second cast time)

[Kurando]

snip)

Yeah I noticed my oGCD and GCD got confusing there...

Though if the fairy can cast Embrace for free without any command, why would being forced to use a GCD (or oGCD) be any better? Also several players choose to Macro the fairy so it only uses Embrace when they use a particular action (such as Physick), so they have actually that degree of control you are suggesting here apart from the spell casting time

The fairy doesn't suffer as bad of issues with ability queuing though (again unlike SMN pets). If your fairy is casting Embrace, they will cancel it and use anything else if you command it (such as Whispering, or Fey etc), this was fixed several patches ago. Wind Blade on the other hand cannot be cancelled once it's casting which is what causes issues with Contagion, Devotion etc.

[Mansion]

I think that in order to "fix" Bahamut you would just have to take out its need to stand close to the player. It could be like Garuda: standing somewhere and doing its thing without feeling it has to follow you everywhere. That's about it really, as long as you don't move and watch for animation clipping, Bahamut is alright.

I'm on the board of having Egis completely removed actually. Like making them work as stances that unlock abilities based on which Egi you choose, but everything would come from the Summoner, making weaving oGCD less of a pain without the pet's AI. (with flashy animations to make up for the loss of the ugly Egis)
Now it would be hard because you would need to rewrite all SMN quest, and that's not happening but if Bahamut was fixed as I said and Egis worked that way, it would be a nice step for me.

[Kalise]

I think that in order to "fix" Bahamut you would just have to take out its need to stand close to the player. It could be like Garuda: standing somewhere and doing its thing without feeling it has to follow you everywhere. That's about it really, as long as you don't move and watch for animation clipping, Bahamut is alright.

I'm on the board of having Egis completely removed actually. Like making them work as stances that unlock abilities based on which Egi you choose, but everything would come from the Summoner, making weaving oGCD less of a pain without the pet's AI. (with flashy animations to make up for the loss of the ugly Egis)
Now it would be hard because you would need to rewrite all SMN quest, and that's not happening but if Bahamut was fixed as I said and Egis worked that way, it would be a nice step for me.

Honestly, my ideal world would be to fix pet AI so that all pets will function correctly and be responsive irregardless of what action you tell them to use.

Then, delete Egi's and replace them with Demi's. Go into the SMN quests and replace all mentions of Egi with Demi, replace the stupid spicy popoto model used for Ifrit during the relevant cutscenes with the new Demi version.

Thus create SMN's "Trance Dance" playstyle from level 30 utilizing Demi summons instead of Dreadwyrm Trance. Rework Dreadwyrm Trance into something different (Maybe like a super Rouse type CD that buffs both yours and your summons damage) so that the level 58 quest makes sense.

If needs be, make SMN continue to use Emerald/Topaz/Ruby Carbuncles as their permanent pets with the Demi's replacing them for the duration (Including being able to summon them by "Upgrading" the skill button for the relevant pet. I.e. Emerald Carbuncle > Demi-Garuda, Topaz Carbuncle > Demi-Titan and Ruby Carbuncle > Demi-Ifrit)

With the only outstanding difficulty being trying to deal with Demi-Ifrit/Titan being melee summons and thus will be getting all up in the grill of mDPS >.>

[Shougun]

Those would make for some interesting changes to the system. I don't have an exact way I'd like to see the AI adjusted but I agree that the AI should be far more responsive lol.

To me in a blurb I think Summoner AI should feel like an extension of your will, such that if you command something it happens then there and right away (the pets have a queue right now so they want to finish their tasks first lol). I think to the point that when you're stunned so is the egi (although people may find that annoying, just an example of how much I see summoner "willing" this thing together and into existence).

The response of egi/demi being *snap* now is preferable.

It would be nice to be able to remove their physical presence from the field (to avoid attacks/pushbacks), like Demi-Bahamut. Obviously you'd need to be able to make them physical for tanking needs if you wanted that though. To talk about range perhaps all of the egi spells have a sort of dash mechanic when they need it, like if Garuda is 5 yalms out of range she'll sort of do a side strafe warp into nearby position and have the spell cast at the point (fast and smooth). So if Bahamut is near you but needs to be closer to the enemy he'd just very quickly flap his wings do a barrel roll drop some sweet morn and come back. May even bake a slight potency boost to the movement portion of the spells, so if they're used it's not a DPS loss or gain (but the movement should be very fast, otherwise you're still stuck watching them do something you decided you didn't want lol).

While personally I think the beastmaster or pets with a conscious / self would have some a bit more personality, maybe when you're stunned they could shout and reduce stun duration. I see summoner commanding more and the beastmaster coexisting more (after training the pet of course ).

Perhaps with the combination of spells triggering them to do something and them being able to demify / stick to their targets like super aether glue then SE can keep summoner balanced but even more pet focused. Imo damage distribution of Summoner should be mostly from egi/demi, 75 25 or 65 35, while beastmaster would be like 50 50 or 35 65 (pet, player).