Pet AI Rework Suggestion

[Kalise]

* Pets now have an Auto Attack

* Primary pet skills no longer have cast times (Wind Blade, Embrace)

* Primary pet skills are cast upon you using a GCD skill

* Secondary pet skills and Enkindle skills are now oGCD

Bonus idea:

* Demi-Bahamut is now summoned via ground targeter and will remain where he is stood unless combat ends or his target moves out of his range (Where he'll move towards them)

The idea being creating more synergy between Summoner/Scholar where their actions directly correlate to their pets dealing more damage (With then SMN getting Ruin IV procs too) - This also allows the balancing of Scholar a bit easier around fairy heals, as it will no longer be auto-healing on its own and will be tied to your GCD heal skills as an additional potency boost.

In addition, secondary skills being oGCD's means that they should be usable even while moving, and in addition, cast times are removed so that skills don't get queued and thus the now oGCD skills can be used at the moment they're pressed.

[Kurando]

So you're saying Embrace will have insta-cast? This would have to be turned in to an ability, and because of that no doubt it will be nerfed in potency (just like Whispering Dawn) to reflect the change or Physick would be buffed.
Embrace would also no longer benefit from Rouse, making the potency increase from it worthless. Also you said auto attack for pets, so I'm assuming you include the fairy? Why does it need a DPS auto attack, SCH already brings plenty of it itself.

Wind Blade to instant ain't so much a bad thing though, it means Contagion had more chance of going off correctly as opposed to it requiring multiple clicks, because it doesn't always register the first time. The Bahamut changes seem ok, considering it's actions have a lot of range it could work in most environments (i.e. not chasing mobs).

[Kalise]

So you're saying Embrace will have insta-cast? This would have to be turned in to an ability, and because of that no doubt it will be nerfed in potency (just like Whispering Dawn) to reflect the change or Physick would be buffed.
Embrace would also no longer benefit from Rouse, making the potency increase from it worthless.

Any particular reason why instant cast means "Ability"?

Typically "Abilities" are oGCD's. But Embrace would remain a GCD action, just instant.

Potency nerf... Is to be expected, given it no longer having a 2s cast.

Though how much, given that it will only be tied to your GCD heals now instead of auto-firing whenever the fairy exists near people below 80% life, is hard to say.

Rouse, probably could do with an overhaul anyway given how limited it already is for SCH.

Also you said auto attack for pets, so I'm assuming you include the fairy? Why does it need a DPS auto attack, SCH already brings plenty of it itself.

I wasn't sure about adding in fairy to the AA addition. So I left it vague instead of specifying anything.

DPS AA for fairy could be interesting so that it wouldn't be literally useless for the majority of the time (Especially with this new Embrace tied to GCD heals) - Though I could maybe make a case for it also having a weak GCD ability for it to use alongside your damaging GCD's...

I had also thought about letting the fairy have a "Healing" AA where it will continuously heal players for a small amount... But this would then have the similar effect as current fairy where it's passive healing while you're spamming damage which is causing some balance issues as is.

Either way, this would be a concern for fine tuning balance, my initial focus lies in trying to iron out the mechanics of pets and their finicky ability usages due to things like cast times and everything being queued as GCD skills.

Wind Blade to instant ain't so much a bad thing though, it means Contagion had more chance of going off correctly as opposed to it requiring multiple clicks, because it doesn't always register the first time. The Bahamut changes seem ok, considering it's actions have a lot of range it could work in most environments (i.e. not chasing mobs).

Yeah, with Wind Blade being instant and Contagion being oGCD it should be the case where Contagion is fired off the second you press the button, rather than some point in the future after 1-20 clicks of the button... Maybe...

With Bahamut change being focused around the fact that while he DOES have plenty of range, he gets on people's nerves by spawning like 2 ilms away from the SMN and thus blocking everyone's view... The only issue with this change is it might make him feel a bit like MCH Turrets, though the fact that he'll move with his target if relevant (Though, shouldn't happen too much given his limited duration and range as well as you not being too likely to drop him in a poor location right before a boss moves a long distance)

It's also to note that Bahamut will also get benefit from Akh Morn also now being oGCD so he'll be more consistent with its cast to boot. As well as having some AA's between Wyrmwaves you make him cast with GCD's.

[Mansion]

I think that in order to "fix" Bahamut you would just have to take out its need to stand close to the player. It could be like Garuda: standing somewhere and doing its thing without feeling it has to follow you everywhere. That's about it really, as long as you don't move and watch for animation clipping, Bahamut is alright.

I'm on the board of having Egis completely removed actually. Like making them work as stances that unlock abilities based on which Egi you choose, but everything would come from the Summoner, making weaving oGCD less of a pain without the pet's AI. (with flashy animations to make up for the loss of the ugly Egis)
Now it would be hard because you would need to rewrite all SMN quest, and that's not happening but if Bahamut was fixed as I said and Egis worked that way, it would be a nice step for me.

[Kalise]

I think that in order to "fix" Bahamut you would just have to take out its need to stand close to the player. It could be like Garuda: standing somewhere and doing its thing without feeling it has to follow you everywhere. That's about it really, as long as you don't move and watch for animation clipping, Bahamut is alright.

I'm on the board of having Egis completely removed actually. Like making them work as stances that unlock abilities based on which Egi you choose, but everything would come from the Summoner, making weaving oGCD less of a pain without the pet's AI. (with flashy animations to make up for the loss of the ugly Egis)
Now it would be hard because you would need to rewrite all SMN quest, and that's not happening but if Bahamut was fixed as I said and Egis worked that way, it would be a nice step for me.

Honestly, my ideal world would be to fix pet AI so that all pets will function correctly and be responsive irregardless of what action you tell them to use.

Then, delete Egi's and replace them with Demi's. Go into the SMN quests and replace all mentions of Egi with Demi, replace the stupid spicy popoto model used for Ifrit during the relevant cutscenes with the new Demi version.

Thus create SMN's "Trance Dance" playstyle from level 30 utilizing Demi summons instead of Dreadwyrm Trance. Rework Dreadwyrm Trance into something different (Maybe like a super Rouse type CD that buffs both yours and your summons damage) so that the level 58 quest makes sense.

If needs be, make SMN continue to use Emerald/Topaz/Ruby Carbuncles as their permanent pets with the Demi's replacing them for the duration (Including being able to summon them by "Upgrading" the skill button for the relevant pet. I.e. Emerald Carbuncle > Demi-Garuda, Topaz Carbuncle > Demi-Titan and Ruby Carbuncle > Demi-Ifrit)

With the only outstanding difficulty being trying to deal with Demi-Ifrit/Titan being melee summons and thus will be getting all up in the grill of mDPS >.>

[Shougun]

Those would make for some interesting changes to the system. I don't have an exact way I'd like to see the AI adjusted but I agree that the AI should be far more responsive lol.

To me in a blurb I think Summoner AI should feel like an extension of your will, such that if you command something it happens then there and right away (the pets have a queue right now so they want to finish their tasks first lol). I think to the point that when you're stunned so is the egi (although people may find that annoying, just an example of how much I see summoner "willing" this thing together and into existence).

The response of egi/demi being *snap* now is preferable.

It would be nice to be able to remove their physical presence from the field (to avoid attacks/pushbacks), like Demi-Bahamut. Obviously you'd need to be able to make them physical for tanking needs if you wanted that though. To talk about range perhaps all of the egi spells have a sort of dash mechanic when they need it, like if Garuda is 5 yalms out of range she'll sort of do a side strafe warp into nearby position and have the spell cast at the point (fast and smooth). So if Bahamut is near you but needs to be closer to the enemy he'd just very quickly flap his wings do a barrel roll drop some sweet morn and come back. May even bake a slight potency boost to the movement portion of the spells, so if they're used it's not a DPS loss or gain (but the movement should be very fast, otherwise you're still stuck watching them do something you decided you didn't want lol).

While personally I think the beastmaster or pets with a conscious / self would have some a bit more personality, maybe when you're stunned they could shout and reduce stun duration. I see summoner commanding more and the beastmaster coexisting more (after training the pet of course ).

Perhaps with the combination of spells triggering them to do something and them being able to demify / stick to their targets like super aether glue then SE can keep summoner balanced but even more pet focused. Imo damage distribution of Summoner should be mostly from egi/demi, 75 25 or 65 35, while beastmaster would be like 50 50 or 35 65 (pet, player).

[Grimoire-M]

To be honest the more I think about how Bahamut and the egi operate the more I realize their underlying AI hasn't changed at all. This is mostly from trying to pry out the development process that went into him. Namely, how little would SE have to change to make him work. The Egi while on Heel will immediately return to you once your target is dead or gone and they haven't been given a new one, but they will remain still and auto attack as long as they have a target, even one presented to them within their GCD timer. Movement commands also interrupt Egi actions and can even eat cooldowns like Devotion if you don't think about it.

The only thing Bahamut does differently is he doesn't auto attack. Thus a lot of his behaviour makes sense if they went for a very minimal change (just removing the auto attack portion so they could add the wyrmwave proc) and left him in the default 'Heel' AI. I also know he doesn't inherit your pet's AI stances, as a place command on an Egi is enough to override that behaviour but any resummon immediately defaults back to Heel, so there's no way to override that behavior. I also know from playing with him before that he remembers which Egi you last summoned too, even one you attempt to summon while he's out, but that can't be used to do anything since he overrides the egi until his timer expires.

The overall Egi and Bahamut AI thus needs to be changed to default to standing still as if affected by a Place command, unless commanded to attack an enemy out of line of sight, instead of moving next to the Summoner immediately once a target is lost, with Heel being treated as a movement command that pulls the pet to a random position within the Summoner's range. That would fix all of their problems.

[Llugen]

Pet AI rework suggestion: scrap it completely c:

and come up with something less clunky

[Kalise]

Pet AI rework suggestion: scrap it completely c:

and come up with something less clunky

Such as?

I try to suggest something a bit better than "Fix it!"

Hence the suggestions in this thread about trying to fix some of the issues with the AI.

Notably, the queuing of pet skills (Thanks to them all being GCD's for whatever reason) as well as movement.

[Llugen]

If you've been following the other almost identical thread to this one, I'd said pre-4.0 when BRD got the system for songs that it currently has, that was basically what I felt like SMN should have. Three separate 30 second long phases where you summon the three primals in succession and it changes your output/skills accordingly. Only after summoning all 3 can you do a Demi Bahamut.

To fit SCH into this, instead of having a fairy it would be a temporary stance that changes your heals (and DPS, why not) and adds to them in various ways between the two (or three if they'd like to add a third "fairy" as a result).