I'd like to see 5-man dungeons, with a slight caveat...

[Rollout]

It would still require a complete redesign of the dungeons, both for the added role to be added to the mechanics of the party finder and to rebalance ALL the dungeons for five men over four.

I'm not saying make ALL dungeons 5-man. I'm saying make SOME 5-man dungeons, to teach players some mechanics they wouldn't normally see in 4-man and easy 8-man content.

[Beki_Bayaqad]

Yes, I realize this. However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ever hope to see improvements to the game, or expansions upon the job system.

And how would making life for the dev team harder a way to improve the game or make the jobs better?

[Beki_Bayaqad]

I'm not saying make ALL dungeons 5-man. I'm saying make SOME 5-man dungeons, to teach players some mechanics they wouldn't normally see in 4-man and easy 8-man content.

The structure of dungeons are 4, 8 ot 24 man, which is easy to make. having them develop a whole new dungeon for a different number of roles would be even more work on top of the standard dungeon system.

If you want people to learn mechanics, then go do Normal runs of content, they normally have simpler versions of mechanics that their hard/savage counterparts use (except for exdeath, kefka and Omega naturally. those require on site practice. )

[Reimmi]

It would be nice for a tank swap tutorial kind of thing, since the majority of story content doesn't even use the 2nd tank in trials for much

[Skivvy]

And how would making life for the dev team harder a way to improve the game or make the jobs better?

Is your point that we just shouldn't ask for anything then?

I'm not sure if you're simply new and in the honeymoon phase with this game, but there is a lot that could be improved and fleshed out with this game. I'm not one of the people that thing the devs in XIV are simply lazy. I'm sure they have plenty of things to contend with be it the shoddy coding from 1.0, hamster-powered servers, limited funds, who knows. However, it's not some outrageous idea that devs should put some effort into improving their game.

[Beki_Bayaqad]

Is your point that we just shouldn't ask for anything then?

no asking for things isn't bad. but asking for something ureasonable

[Odstarva]

no asking for things isn't bad. but asking for something ureasonable

It's up to the devs to decide what they can or can't do.

If you never ask for anything, you're never getting anything.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i can see what the OP is going for here.

we have Bardam's Mettle and that novice training thing too. they do teach a few things here and there. although, i am quite surprised that what they attempt to teach in Bardam's mettle doesn't come sooner in the game and/or expansion.

as far as 5-man dungeons go... i think it would probably be simpler to just create group exercises. a training thing people could go in and become more familiar with the most common tricks used by the enemy. ( heck they could probably even design it so we can use our Squadron ) but at the same time... this would mean SE will need to come up with different attacks and mechanics all that much quicker, because those players are going to quickly tire of what they learned.



personally... i am not a skilled player in the slightest bit, and don't even play revamped content. ( ballads, EX and savage ) i haven't touch revamped content since the start of Heavensward, and probably never will. HOWEVER, actually learning the attacks/mechanics is part of the fun when playing new content. if running the content multiple times and you still don't really get something, ask in chat and someone is sure to help you understand. and as far as revamped content goes... unless you are in a static trying to get day1 clears, watch videos or read online guides for that.



all-in-all, i think things are pretty okay the way they are. that novice training thing teaches you the basics of your role, and that seems enough. but it also probably wouldn't hurt to expand on what is already in the game to include a few more basics.

i think what would be a better idea is to include something more solo-friendly like that Sky thing they used as a DPS check to see if you were ready to attempt certain content or not. basically... they would set up for DPS pretty much the way it is now. maybe a few minor changes to include an add's phase. if you don't clear, you either need gear upgrades, or to practice your rotation and/or timing better. then we would have healer practice checks that would test your ability to heal. if failed, again the same thing like with DPS. and so on with tank too, having damage mitigation checks.

it might be hard to identify to the player exactly where they are lacking the most. so maybe instead of a clear/fail, they could grade your performance and highlight the different aspects of the challenge with different ratings. this would allow the player to assess for themselves in what whey they should need to improve. heck, maybe include that PLUS a clear/fail threshold too.

the basic idea wouldn't be to see if you are ready for specific content, or learn enemy attacks/mechanics. it would just be to help players practice fulfilling their role to to its fullest, or to the best of their ability. ( this would also be great for returning players who fell a little off-edge ) now... only thing about this is having to design a system that is dynamic enough with the players AIL. and in a way they aren't having to constantly re-design or add new implementations. it certainly doesn't seem like something that would be easy to create. i have no clue how it could be done!


all-in-all, and again, things are fine the way they currently are. i personally haven't, in a very long time, had problems with people being unable to fulfill their role. it is certainly far less common the further you make it through the game. that is, aside from the occasional lazy damage dealer. but with that being said, i don't think it would hurt any to see some kind of exercise to help players practice fulfilling their roles. do we need it? i don't think so. would it be useful? certainly.

[Aramina]

I don't know why people keep asking for this but adding a fifth role would require a complete redesign of the dungeon duty system.

But but all you have to do is increase the health and damage, that is easy peasy!

/s

I don't know either. I assume under the misguided belief that it will somehow lower queue times -- newsflash: It won't.

[TitaniaZero]

As long as the MSQ dungeons remain at 4 I don't care what you all want and get. Adding a fifth to the system would destroy the only sanity I have left for the MSQ's majority. (IE I have a total of 3 others to play with consistently since 1.0. No more. No less.) I've been happy that the dungeons have for the majority been at 4, we get things done with a lot less stress than the 8 for Trials.