Simple WHM Lily rework (plus new skills)

[Seraphor]

This suggestion is based on the assumption of a major role skill rework that can accommodate the loss of Protect as a role skill.
Basically just the sort of thing I would like and would expect to be the most likely sort of changes and addition to WHM in ShB.


Main Lily changes
Lilies are generated by Regen, Medica and Medica II, or by hits received via Shell.
Lilies are spent when using Cure, Cure II, Cure III, Tornado or Quake.
1 Lily = Cast time of Cure/II/III reduced by 0.5s
2 Lilies = Cast time reduced by 1.5s
3 Lilies = Cast time reduced to 0

Protect
60s cooldown. Instant cast oGCD.
Bestow a 5% damage resistant buff on all party members in range for 30s.
Additional effect: Physical damage received by targets has a 25% chance of granting them a confession stack.

Shell
30s cooldown. Instant cast oGCD.
Bestow a 10% damage resistance buff on target for 15s.
Additional effect: Magic damage received by target has a 50% chance of granting you a Lily.

(Shell/Protect would stack with each other, both inserted in before level 50 somewhere, before Lilies or Confession stacks become available, so the traits that introduce those would introduce their additional effects.)

Tornado
Replaces Aero III when you have 3 Lilies. Consumes all Lilies. under the effect of 'One with the Elementals'
Deals wind damage with a potency of 80 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Additional Effect: Wind damage over time - Potency: 50 - Duration: 24s
Additional Effect: Reduces cooldown of Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, and Tetragrammaton by 10s.

Quake
Replaces Stone IV when you have 3 Lilies. Consumes all Lilies. under the effect of 'One with the Elementals'
Potency 300 damage to target.
Additional Effect: Reduces cooldown of Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, and Tetragrammaton by 10s.

New Trait: One with the Elementals
Expending 3 Lilies on a Cure/II/III spell grants you the effect of ‘One with the Elementals’.
Under the effect of ‘One with the Elementals’, Stone IV is upgraded to Quake, and Aero III is upgraded to Tornado.
Duration: 15s

Bonus new Trait: Freecure II
Grants a 50% chance that after casting Cure, the MP cost for your next Cure II will be reduced by 50%.
Grants a 25% chance that after casting Cure II, the MP cost for your next Cure III will be reduced by 50%.
Duration: 15s
(This is just because the current freecure trait is pretty much useless above level 50 or so. Making it more likely to trigger in some way, even with decreased effect, would make it more relevant.)


This would give WHM some useful utility in Shell/Protect, and the other healers losing Protect would give WHM some edge over them. They wouldn't complicate the job at lower levels, but would allow them to compete given the loss of Protect as a role skill.
They would interact with their Lily mechanic post 50, which in turn would be useful in granting mobility.
It gives WHM some (minor) mitigation utility without making them a shield-healer, and makes use of the Shell-Magic/Protect-Physical dichotomy without actually worrying about damage types as far as the rest of the party is concerned.

Experienced players could time their Shells/Protects for more effective mitigation, but the cooldown is forgiving enough to use as soon as it’s available and you’ll still at least benefit from the Lilies/Stacks, so it wouldn’t make WHM more difficult to play.

The effect of reducing oGCD cooldowns is maintained via Quake and Tornado, but is a trade-off. You can either expend Lilies via short-cast/instant Cures, for quick mobility, or you can be more strategic and expend them on a little more DPS and get your oGCD’s a bit quicker. The quick Cures would be your modus operandi to start with, rolled back to level 50+ content, before you gain Tornado and Quake around the mid-late 70’s. This would in effect add a layer of complexity of the job, that could be seen as making it more difficult… but really it just means that if you don’t need the instant Cure, you can DPS instead and still gain some benefit by regaining your oGCD heals quicker.

The lilies now improve the function of the Cure spells, granting mobility and speed, and in turn lead into your pDPS boost and utility in oGCD reduction.

[Kalise]

I don't know about this.

Seems awkward.

Why is Protect an AoE? (When Shell is a ST which is more in line with prior games)

Why is WHM's "Utility" still not a party damage output to make them competitive to SCH/AST?

Why is Tornado literally just Aero III with a tiny potency buff? (When all currently in game casts of Tornado are high direct damage skills)

Why is Quake single target (Unlike how it was back in 1.0?)

Why should I ever care about casting Cure I or Cure II still? (Especially since I get more healing from not doing so via more oGCD usages) Since if I don't use them now when they're NECESSARY to generate Lilies, why would I cast them when they USE my Lilies I'm generating?

[Seraphor]

Why is Protect an AoE?
It's already an AoE... this gives them an AoE option and a ST option, because that's how this game works...

Why is WHM's "Utility" still not a party damage output to make them competitive to SCH/AST?
Why does it have to be? They gain additional pDPS via their later utility.

Why is Tornado literally just Aero III with a tiny potency buff? (When all currently in game casts of Tornado are high direct damage skills)
Why is Quake single target (Unlike how it was back in 1.0?)
Because that’s what Earth and Wind spells are in this game… Quake and Tornado are simply upgraded versions of them, with a bit extra potency, and the additional utility with oGCDs.

Why should I ever care about casting Cure I or Cure II still?
Because by using lilies to reduce or eliminate their cast time, you remove the handicap that made them non-optimal. If you have 3 lilies, you essentially gain an extra instant heal. But as I explained, this is only a temporary use from level 50-70, or a very situational use 70+, instead you would use lilies for Tornado and Quake.

Via Tornado and Quake, Lilies provide utility via a DPS boost, and the oGCD cooldown reduction, without radically changing the function of a WHM, because WHM is supposed to be the easy/newb healer.

[Kalise]

Why is Protect an AoE?
It's already an AoE... this gives them an AoE option and a ST option, because that's how this game works...

But you also make the skill a non-factor for actual usage.

Basically you'll likely just press it on CD (With Shell macro'd to a tank) and with 50% uptime you'll likely hit most damage with it.

Why is WHM's "Utility" still not a party damage output to make them competitive to SCH/AST?
Why does it have to be?

Because it's literally the reason why WHM is seen as unfavoured compared to AST.

Why is Tornado literally just Aero III with a tiny potency buff? (When all currently in game casts of Tornado are high direct damage skills)
Why is Quake single target (Unlike how it was back in 1.0?)
Because that’s what Earth and Wind spells are in this game… Quake and Tornado are simply upgraded versions of them, with a bit extra potency, and the additional utility with oGCDs.

But it isn't?

There are more Earth and Wind spells in the game than just Stone and Aero.

Next you're going to tell me that Flare should be single target because "That's what Fire spells are in the game hurr durr"?

If you're just going to make Quake and Tornado into buffs of Aero and Stone, at least don't ruin any chance of making actually good Quake and Tornado spells and just call your crap "Aero IV" and "Stone V" since that's all they are.

Why should I ever care about casting Cure I or Cure II still?
Because by using lilies to reduce or eliminate their cast time, you remove the handicap that made them non-optimal. If you have 3 lilies, you essentially gain an extra instant heal. But as I explained, this is only a temporary use from level 50-70, or a very situational use 70+, instead you would use lilies for Tornado and Quake.

Making them instant does not remove the handicap that makes them sub-optimal. Instant casts still use GCD's. That is why RDM isn't tossing out Vercure all the time. That's why you only cast Regen when necessary and don't spam it out when Medica II HoTs will cover the healing.

GCD heals are not wanted because using a GCD on something that is not a damage spell is a DPS loss. It doesn't matter if it's a hard cast spell or and instant cast spell, either way it eats your GCD.

In addition, you now reduce both your DPS AND HPS by using a hard cast Cure I or Cure II in this case (Also, make a case to no longer use Cure III) because without using Cure spells you don't use GCD's on non-damaging spells but you also get to have all your Lilies turn into CDR on your oGCD spells (Meaning, more damage from more Assize and more healing from Asylum/DB/Tetra)

Meanwhile Freecure is still garbage since, you still don't want to use Cure I or Cure II ever.

Via Tornado and Quake, Lilies provide utility via a DPS boost, and the oGCD cooldown reduction, without radically changing the function of a WHM, because WHM is supposed to be the easy/newb healer.

Really all you're doing is further cementing the current playstyle of "Ignore Cure I and Cure II, spam Stone and Aero's" but now get free cooldown reductions on your actual heal spells passively by doing your normal stuff.

Lilies are still a mechanic to ignore, because you won't go out of your way to actually try and stack/use them. Cure spells are still ignored because there's still no reason to actually use them and in fact more reason to actively ignore them. Your DPS gameplay also doesn't change at all because the "New" spells are literally just extra ranks of the same stuff you already have.

There's a difference between "Simple/Easy" to play and "Not actually changing a damn thing"

[Ceasaria]

I think we can have this instead :


Secret of Lily I :
Adds a Lily to your Healing Gauge upon the execution of Regen, Medica or Medica II on self or a party member while in combat, or Fluid Aura to target.
1 Lily = Cast time reduced by 25%
2 Lilies = Cast time reduced by 50%
3 Lilies = Cast time reduced by 75%

Secret of Lily II
Grants 100% chance that after casting Cure with 3 lilies, another Cure will hit the ally with the less HP. Consumes all Lilies.
Grants a 75% chance that after casting Cure II with 3 lilies, another Cure II will hit the ally with the less HP. Consumes all Lilies.
Grants a 50% chance that after casting Cure III with 3 lilies, another Cure III will hit the ally with the less HP and those nearby him. Consumes all Lilies.

Tornado
Replaces Aero III when you have 3 Lilies. Consumes all Lilies.
Deals wind damage with a potency of 70 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Additional Effect: Wind damage over time - Potency: 50 - Duration: 24s
Additional Effect: Increases magical defense of self and nearby party members by 30%.
Duration : 20 sec
CD : 90 sec

Quake
Replaces Stone IV when you have 3 Lilies. Consumes all Lilies.
Potency 350 damage to target.
Additional Effect: Increases physical defense of self and nearby party members by 30%.
Duration : 20 sec
CD : 90 sec

Holy II
Replaces Holy when you have 3 Lilies. Consumes all Lilies.
Potency 400 damage to all enemies nearby it.
Additional Effect: Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration : 20 sec
CD : 120 sec.

Fluid Aura rework :
Deals water damage with a potency of 100.
Deals a 10-yalm knockback.
Additional Effect: Bind
Duration: 6s
CD : 30 sec

[number473]

Why is everyone trying to add such complicated things to lilies. Really all you need to do is swap the way that lilies work around. As they are at the moment they promote bad gameplay. Building them off medica and medica II only promotes using those skills too often, and regen usage is limited because of its duration. Instead the lilies should encourage the player to follow correct whm gameplay.

WHM healing priority is: off global skills -> regen -> cures
You should use tetra, asylum, assize and benefic to heal first since they are free, so these should be the skills that build lilies.
Cure/Cure II or other gcd heals should be the skills that benefit from lilies. You use them after you have exhausted your other options and you should get a bonus from doing things in the right order.

I'm in favour of them being deleted completely, but if they are going to exist they should at least promote the basic gameplay of the job.

[Seraphor]

WHM healing priority is: off global skills -> regen -> cures
You should use tetra, asylum, assize and benefic to heal first since they are free, so these should be the skills that build lilies.
Cure/Cure II or other gcd heals should be the skills that benefit from lilies. You use them after you have exhausted your other options and you should get a bonus from doing things in the right order.

But that's what my suggestion does.

oGCD's justify themselves, so they don't need to generate the lilies.
Then it's the regens that generate lilies for use with the cures, just as your priority list shows.

[Seraphor]

There are more Earth and Wind spells in the game than just Stone and Aero.

Next you're going to tell me that Flare should be single target because "That's what Fire spells are in the game hurr durr"?

If you're just going to make Quake and Tornado into buffs of Aero and Stone, at least don't ruin any chance of making actually good Quake and Tornado spells and just call your crap "Aero IV" and "Stone V" since that's all they are.

Ok, you can change the way Quake and Tornado deal their damage then.
I was simply trying to keep the changes and upgrades simple, so that the playstyle wasn’t changed too drastically.

You’re still going to need something that’s optimal for single target damage, and something optimal for AoE damage though, and being a healer, a DoT would be a preferable addition in there in some form, so you can throw it out when you anticipate the need to spend a lot of time on healing or doing mechanics.

How would you make Quake and Tornado work, while ticking the ‘ST’, ‘AoE’ and ‘DoT’ boxes?

...


I can see your point on this providing more reason to avoid Cures though.
But I disagree with the idea that we need a reason to use Cures more. There’s a reason we avoid GCD heals, on ALL healers, and the reason why lilies currently don’t work is because it tries to force you to use inefficient methods.
Nothing that tries to make you use more Cures is going to work, you want something that improves the function of those Cures, so that they become more viable in more circumstances. You need a carrot, not a stick.

Perhaps instead of choosing between spending lilies on Cures and spending them on Quake/Tornado…

New Trait: Expending 3 Lilies on a Cure/II/III spell grants you the effect of ‘One with the Elementals’.
Under the effect of ‘One with the Elementals’, Stone IV is upgraded to Quake, and Aero III is upgraded to Tornado.

Therefore it’s only when you use an Instacast Cure that you gain access to them and gain the extra potency and oGCD reduction.
You’re not forced to use an inefficient Cure, because you’re only using Cures at their most efficient level.

[kidalutz]

Or you can just remove lillies alltogether and give us more interesting things to use.

AST:Fun to use because theres so much extra that you can rock while You're healing

SCH: Not as fun to use because you're really just DoTing things while sheilding things (Same reason I hated Disc Preist in WoW) but you're still doing things.

WHM: I'm gonna...uh heal you really good...Long cast Stone....long cast Aero 3 instacast Areo2 Heal real good...repeat

[Kalise]

You’re still going to need something that’s optimal for single target damage, and something optimal for AoE damage though, and being a healer, a DoT would be a preferable addition in there in some form, so you can throw it out when you anticipate the need to spend a lot of time on healing or doing mechanics.

How would you make Quake and Tornado work, while ticking the ‘ST’, ‘AoE’ and ‘DoT’ boxes?

There's no real reason why a "DoT" is necessary. It's not "Preferable" for a healer in any way.

Whether you have a 50 potency DoT lasting 24s or a 400 potency direct damage nuke, the outcome is still the same. Spending one GCD on 400 potency spell. (The only difference is a DoT you want to snapshot with damage up buffs only, while a direct damage skill you want to use while under damage up buffs as well as benefiting from debuffs better)

Anyway, as far as I'd make Quake/Tornado work...

I'd probably do something like:

Tornado: Deal damage to target with potency of 300 and deals 50% damage to targets around them. Costs 3 Lilies.
Bonus effect: Deals 150 potency more damage for each of your Aero spells active on the main target.
Cooldown: 30s

Quake: Deal 200 potency damage to your target and all targets near them. Costs 3 Lilies.
Cooldown: 15s

I can see your point on this providing more reason to avoid Cures though.
But I disagree with the idea that we need a reason to use Cures more. There’s a reason we avoid GCD heals, on ALL healers, and the reason why lilies currently don’t work is because it tries to force you to use inefficient methods.
Nothing that tries to make you use more Cures is going to work, you want something that improves the function of those Cures, so that they become more viable in more circumstances. You need a carrot, not a stick.

Which is why there must needs be a mechanic that is not focused around Cure usage.

No generation of Lilies from Cures, no expending of Lilies through Cures. DON'T USE A MECHANIC THAT WANTS US TO USE THE SKILLS WE NEVER WANT TO USE.

Make Lilies work with literally any other skills in the WHM kit. Anything other than the 2 spells we don't want to use unless it's REALLY necessary.

Some suggestions for Lilly generation and effects that are nothing to do with Cure:

Regen ticks have a 20% (100% if critical) chance to generate a Lily.

Casting Stone on a target that has one of your Aero effects on them has a 20% chance to generate a Lily. This chance increases to 40% if both Aero effects are on the target.

Aero DoT ticks have a 20% (100% if critical) chance to generate a Lily.

Lilies can be spent to cast Tornado or Quake.

Lilies can be consumed by oGCD heal skills (Asylum, Assize, Tetra, DB) to reduce all active CD's by 1/3/5 seconds.

You’re not forced to use an inefficient Cure, because you’re only using Cures at their most efficient level.

CURES ARE NEVER EFFICIENT.

Whether you spend 2s casting Cure I/II or 0s casting Cure I/II you will still need to wait out the 2.5s GCD before you can start casting another GCD skill.

Making spells instant does not suddenly make them not use a GCD, otherwise RDM's would be broken and Swiftcast would be used to weave extra Stones/Aero III's into your rotation.