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  1. #1
    Player
    MrThinker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    902
    Character
    Jakaar Rakkin
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    I would like to point out that the lore restrictions with the types of healing magic that applies to the Source does not necessarily apply to other shards like the First. Someguy might have coincidentally developed techniques similar to our SCH, including the use of faeries and arcanima, and it so happens that the job is commonly used in the First, same with Astrologian. So if there is anywhere that SE decides to introduce new NPC healers of one of the other classes (or more importantly I believe, NPCs wielding another weapon besides a cane) they would be residents of the First, or learning their techniques there. As Iscah said, Urianger is already getting the AST treatment in ShB (whether that be Sharlayan style AST, or First style AST is unknown).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anselmet View Post
    Aren't most jobs rare? At the top of my head there are only a handful of dragoons, there aren't that many red mages, paladins are more or less the elite guards for the sultana, dark knights are rare, machinists are just starting up in Ishgard, I don't remember bard being too popular in Gridania bc they don't believe in the power of song. I don't think its just a healer diversity problem but rather its supposed to be rare and above the class roles.
    Lorewise, the more populous jobs would probably be Samurai and Astrologian and maybe Ninja. The others are indeed comparably rare.
    (4)
    Last edited by MrThinker; 04-09-2019 at 05:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Rocl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Final Call of Warcraft XIV
    Posts
    761
    Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by ObsidianFire View Post
    One is yours. The other belongs to Surito Carito from the Lvl. 60 - 70 SCH quests.
    Super minor nitpick: the Warrior of Light's soulstone is Surito Carito's soulstone, which is why we have his faerie, Lily. Through the course of the Stormblood Scholar quests you discover Setoto's father's soul crystal with the faerie Lilac. Still two soulstones though.

    I also feel that a need to shoutout to the unconventional healer types in certain solo duties: Cid functions as a healer in the Mor Dhona ARR MSQ when you protect Maggie from Imperials by using "Aqua Vitae" to heal the Warrior of Light. This skill is re-used by other NPCs for the same purpose. During the Interdimensional Rift solo duties, Midgardsormr will be the one to cast Cure should someone drop below a certain threshold, since neither Nero nor Cid are capable of magic. Yugiri also uses a skill "Suiyaku" to heal the Warrior of Light in several duties as well, and I believe the Ninjas in the job quests do as well. Jacke casts Physick, for some reason, showing off the now defunct cross-class skill system! Orn Khai heals the Warrior of Light in the Dragoon Stormblood finale, etc.

    The rank and file healers of Eorzea appear to be mainly conjurers, this is true, but that's also because when you break it down, conjurer is the only healer Disciple of Magic class. It's not brought up as often any more, I think, but soulstones are rare (though becoming more common! think of all the soulstones the Summoner questline introduces and it's arguably the oldest job usable by the Warrior of Light!); so NPCs are often relegated only to classes, and so, the disparity.
    (13)
    Last edited by Rocl; 04-09-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,195
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    I also feel that a need to shoutout to the unconventional healer types in certain solo duties: Cid functions as a healer in the Mor Dhona ARR MSQ when you protect Maggie from Imperials by using "Aqua Vitae" to heal the Warrior of Light. This skill is re-used by other NPCs for the same purpose. During the Interdimensional Rift solo duties, Midgardsormr will be the one to cast Cure should someone drop below a certain threshold, since neither Nero nor Cid are capable of magic. Yugiri also uses a skill "Suiyaku" to heal the Warrior of Light in several duties as well, and I believe the Ninjas in the job quests do as well.
    Aqua Vitae (water of life) and Suiyaku (liquid medicine) are supposed to represent them using potions on you, so anyone could have access to those "abilities" if there was a need for an improvised healer NPC. They just need to use which ever potion word fits the NPC's cultural background.
    (13)

  4. #4
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,800
    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    It's not brought up as often any more, I think, but soulstones are rare (though becoming more common! think of all the soulstones the Summoner questline introduces and it's arguably the oldest job usable by the Warrior of Light!); so NPCs are often relegated only to classes, and so, the disparity.
    Soulstones are not required to become a job (except SCH and WHM.)

    Soulstones are a history of the job and the abilities learned by the previous holders, making it easier for the current holder to learn said abilities. It's possible to become a paladin/bard/dragoon/etc through time and effort and training alone. The soulstone is just a shortcut that lets you skip the years of extra training. (The exceptions being SCH where the fairy is tied to the stone, and WHM where the elementals won't accept a non-padjal without it.)
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,822
    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Brightamethyst View Post
    Soulstones are not required to become a job (except SCH and WHM.)

    Soulstones are a history of the job and the abilities learned by the previous holders, making it easier for the current holder to learn said abilities. It's possible to become a paladin/bard/dragoon/etc through time and effort and training alone. The soulstone is just a shortcut that lets you skip the years of extra training. (The exceptions being SCH where the fairy is tied to the stone, and WHM where the elementals won't accept a non-padjal without it.)
    From a lore perspective, this is correct. Take Machinist, for example - their Soulstone is completely empty. In theory, an individual should be just as accomplished with or without the stone equipped, since the stone provides no knowledge or skills whatsoever (rather, you're wearing it as a courtesy to pass your own skills and knowledge on to future bearers of the stone).

    I would guess that the others are the same way. It's not impossible to learn the job skills though research and self-discovery - having them pre-packaged in a stone just makes it easier and more convenient to pass knowledge of these skills. I'd argue that this even applies to SCH and WHM. In the case of SCH, a Soulstone is a convenient place for the fairy to dwell, but it needn't be the only possible such dwelling. An animated puppet, like the one you earn at the completion of the Anima questline, could serve, as well. (As for WHM, I forget what makes their Soulstone so special and unique - but recall that Amdapor in its prime had PLENTY of folks wielding White Magic; a single stone couldn't possibly account for that, so it's clear the skills can be learned without bearing that specific stone, or likely any stone.)
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,800
    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    As for WHM, I forget what makes their Soulstone so special and unique - but recall that Amdapor in its prime had PLENTY of folks wielding White Magic; a single stone couldn't possibly account for that, so it's clear the skills can be learned without bearing that specific stone, or likely any stone.
    Theoretically you could come across a WHM stone in a sixth era ruin or something but you'd probably seriously piss off the elementals if you tried to use it without padjal approval.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    973
    Character
    Miyo Mohzolhi
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Brightamethyst View Post
    Soulstones are not required to become a job (except SCH and WHM.)

    Soulstones are a history of the job and the abilities learned by the previous holders, making it easier for the current holder to learn said abilities. It's possible to become a paladin/bard/dragoon/etc through time and effort and training alone. The soulstone is just a shortcut that lets you skip the years of extra training. (The exceptions being SCH where the fairy is tied to the stone, and WHM where the elementals won't accept a non-padjal without it.)
    Principia also says a soul crystal is required to become a Summoner. He doesn't explain why, but he lists it as one of the criteria.

    I don't even want to think about the sheer confusing mess that is the Paladin soul crystal, since apparently both the writers and the NPCs want to forget that the Heavensward "Paladin soul crystals must fight for dominance" questline even existed.
    (6)

  8. #8
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,158
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MrThinker View Post
    As Iscah said, Urianger is already getting the AST treatment in ShB (whether that be Sharlayan style AST, or First style AST is unknown).
    Sharlayan astromancy seems likely, since (as I said earlier) he is Sharlayan and it seems probable that he would have studied it already. From the trailer, he also seems to have been conducting a fortune-reading with the Deck of Sixty cards - he's holding them when talking to Y'shtola/Matoya about their 'undeniable fate'. (At least I assume they're standard cards - haven't actually double checked against the game designs though.)

    Even if they're trapped on the First, the stars should remain the same as on the Source - it may be that the dimension-split is localised and they're still looking out on the same stars, but even if the entire universe is split, 12,000 years isn't that long at an astronomical timescale and any difference should be minimal.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Jacke casts Physick, for some reason, showing off the now defunct cross-class skill system!
    He's from the city where the Arcanists' Guild is located - it makes sense that he'd learn basic healing skills from there.

    I can also see the 'visual magic' of arcanistry suiting rogues better than reciting spells.

    If you've only got one or two spells that you need to cast, maybe you can get away with not having a grimoire? Just have that symbol embroidered on your clothing, or maybe as a tattoo. (There was something in the second lorebook about that, wasn't there?)



    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    I don't even want to think about the sheer confusing mess that is the Paladin soul crystal, since apparently both the writers and the NPCs want to forget that the Heavensward "Paladin soul crystals must fight for dominance" questline even existed.
    Ugh. I hope they've got a good future plot point in mind involving that, because it made no sense at all at the time, and just derailed the whole plot for no good purpose.

    Jenlyns summed it up pretty well.

    JENLYNS
    Of course. It's so simple!
    ...Wait, no, it's not. It's needlessly complicated.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    Bright-Flower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,828
    Character
    Nyr Ardyne
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    Principia also says a soul crystal is required to become a Summoner. He doesn't explain why, but he lists it as one of the criteria.

    I don't even want to think about the sheer confusing mess that is the Paladin soul crystal, since apparently both the writers and the NPCs want to forget that the Heavensward "Paladin soul crystals must fight for dominance" questline even existed.
    But the Immortal Flames are training new summoners, does that mean they found new crystals for them as well?
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Joven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    The Otter Limits
    Posts
    1,385
    Character
    Jasmine Clayworth
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Anselmet View Post
    Aren't most jobs rare? At the top of my head there are only a handful of dragoons, there aren't that many red mages, paladins are more or less the elite guards for the sultana, dark knights are rare, machinists are just starting up in Ishgard, I don't remember bard being too popular in Gridania bc they don't believe in the power of song. I don't think its just a healer diversity problem but rather its supposed to be rare and above the class roles.
    Typically the full job title is rare. That's why everyone is so shocked when you just stroll up and become whatever, because either the barrier for entry is too high for almost anyone to obtain that status or it's a dead/dying art that no-one has heard of or has any talent for.
    (7)

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