(Savage) People give up way too easily...

[Gula]

Not even Savage, that's just this playerbase.

"WIPE AND KICK" because they want to be carried. Day 1, people crying like babies because they can't complete a trial and error type of trial in 1 go and run away without learning from a mistake.

[Elkanah]

The problem is that the better part of the player base in endgame (most of them in statics or just in general) are on hiatus till the new content arrives for the expansion (endgame). So you're left dealing with the scraps of bad players at the current time till then.

[Nashred]

I think there are several problems.
One is I think too many people are looking for a carry.
Another is people are so tired of doing the same thing over and over and over when there is a wipe they are gone. they just do not want to spend anymore time than they have too..
What I have found is after the party fills back up we usually beat the raid, trial or what ever. The ones that leave are usually the issue.

We just did a trial and the WHM dropped of the edge and the party failed the first time. Complete accident by him. The tank quit right away. We had to sit 1/2 hour because of this baby tank. We beet it right away after the party filled back up. To many people only think of themselves.





Another issue is they nerfed earlier content so much that when people finally get to the latest content they don't have the skills.

Something else I dislike is in the alliance raids is people leaving after they get the drop. Drops should all be at the end.

Yea I wish there was a easy fix for it all.

The problem is that the better part of the player base in endgame (most of them in statics or just in general) are on hiatus till the new content arrives for the expansion (endgame). So you're left dealing with the scraps of bad players at the current time till then.

i think that is partially true but not totally. Some people are just behind because of time or they came to the game later. It does not mean they are all bad. I do hear what you are saying though and generally the more hardcore players get through the content faster.

[Elkanah]

i think that is partially true but not totally. Some people are just behind because of time or they came to the game later. It does not mean they are all bad. I do hear what you are saying though and generally the more hardcore players get through the content faster.

Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of players who don't have the time to really sit down and play, and that's fair (or came in later to the game and didn't think it'd be considered necessary) cause it's all normal and not "hard" content outside of savage or the occasional extreme here and there. Considering IRL > game comes first. And I'm not really worried about those people. But a good portion (not majority) of the more dedicated players are offline until expansion time. But once they pick up again, then it'll be booming as normal till the next patch or two cycle begins anew.

[Daniolaut]

uptime on the boss.

This right here.

This is why people will wait 30 minutes for a party to fill, then instantly leave after 1 wipe.

No one is playing FFXIV. they are all playing Fflogs.

"but parsing isnt toxic."

All the while, Japan has a significantly higher clear rate, and their focus is clearing not parsing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...r_players_who/


Note: after a wipe on a NA server, no one says a thing and just either pulls again or rage quits.


also this

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ut_na_players/

[HyoMinPark]

This right here.

This is why people will wait 30 minutes for a party to fill, then instantly leave after 1 wipe.

No one is playing FFXIV. they are all playing Fflogs.

"but parsing isnt toxic."

All the while, Japan has a significantly higher clear rate, and their focus is clearing not parsing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...r_players_who/


Note: after a wipe on a NA server, no one says a thing and just either pulls again or rage quits.

Not necessarily. I don’t waste time in parties that wipe to the one of the first mechanics of a given fight because how are they going to handle the mechanics later on if they can’t do the first one correctly? And I know a lot of people that have that same mindset—that’s less about parses and more about not wanting to waste time in a party that can’t do mechanics properly.


I also really hate this argument about JP versus NA/EU with regards to Savage clears and clear rates.

So what if JP have higher clear rates? A lot of them do the content purely because they view it as content they need to do. Meanwhile, people on NA/EU don’t do Savage simply because they don’t want to do it. Neither mindset is right or wrong; it’s all down to personal preference, and what people want out of the game. Some want to do everything the devs release. Others more would rather focus on things they enjoy—be they more casual aspects of the game, things like roleplaying or decorating housing, Gold Saucer, whatever.


My post had nothing to do with JP versus NA/EU mindsets with regards to tackling content nor parsers, so please do not twist it into that. I was simply addressing why some players prefer to do certain strats with specific roles. There’s nothing wrong about caring about uptime.

[Daniolaut]

Not necessarily. I don’t waste time in parties that wipe to the one of the first mechanics of a given fight because how are they going to handle the mechanics later on if they can’t do the first one correctly? And I know a lot of people that have that same mindset—that’s less about parses and more about not wanting to waste time in a party that can’t do mechanics properly.


I also really hate this argument about JP versus NA/EU with regards to Savage clears and clear rates.

So what if JP have higher clear rates? A lot of them do the content purely because they view it as content they need to do. Meanwhile, people on NA/EU don’t do Savage simply because they don’t want to do it. Neither mindset is right or wrong; it’s all down to personal preference, and what people want out of the game. Some want to do everything the devs release. Others more would rather focus on things they enjoy—be they more casual aspects of the game, things like roleplaying or decorating housing, Gold Saucer, whatever.


My post had nothing to do with JP versus NA/EU mindsets with regards to tackling content nor parsers, so please do not twist it into that. I was simply addressing why some players prefer to do certain strats with specific roles. There’s nothing wrong about caring about uptime.

You can hate the argument all you want, but as was stated in that podcast, the numbers dont lie.

JP players talk about wipes, take time to teach new players, and work together.

NA/EU only care about their numbers on Fflogs.

Because of that, the clears for NA/EU are significantly lower.

But they used to care about clears.. they used to talk, they used to help each other, but its a dying breed of NA/EU players.

So if you dont have the patience (not specifically talking about farm parties, but in general) then the playerbase is going to degrade over time. Which is also prevalent within the playerbase. I've watched the player base go from taking 3 healers into titan hard mode fights, and kitting mobs in First Coil turn 3, to players purposefully taking aoe hits to get more uptime, and watching the playerbase lose patience, and their clear rates drop and drop.

[HyoMinPark]

You can hate the argument all you want, but as was stated in that podcast, the numbers dont lie.

JP players talk about wipes, take time to teach new players, and work together.

NA/EU only care about their numbers on Fflogs.

Because of that, the clears for NA/EU are significantly lower.

So if you dont have the patience (not specifically talking about farm parties, but in general) then the playerbase is going to degrade over time. Which is also prevalent within the playerbase. I've watched the player base go from taking 3 healers into titan hard mode fights, and kitting mobs in First Coil turn 3, to players purposefully taking aoe hits to get more uptime, and watching the playerbase lose patience, and their clear rates drop and drop.

Not everyone on NA/EU care only about FFLogs. Don’t use absolutes—there are plenty that just want to clear the content; they don’t care how long it takes, what their performance looks like, etc.. As long as they clear, that’s all they care about. I’ve been in 2 statics exactly like that, and I have a good friend that’s in one like that right now. On the other hand, there are statics that want to optimize, and there is nothing wrong with that. Personally, I enjoy the optimization, and pushing my job to do the most it can do. That is what it is fun for me.

Conversely, there are just as many players on JP who do participate in FFLogs leaderboards. There’s nothing wrong with that if that’s what they want to do. So, your point is, what? Like I said, a lot of people on NA/EU do not want to even do Savage, and there is nothing wrong with that. They don’t have to do it. Meanwhile, JP see it as something that needs to be done because it’s in the game.

I feel like you’re just here to start an argument about how JP are inherently superior over NA/EU just because more of them clear Savage, and I have no interest in such an argument. I don’t think either side is better than the other—they just have different mindsets, priorities, and goals. Almost like they’re different kinds of individuals.

People are free to participate or not participate in Savage as much as they want—and they are free to have whatever goals they want.



With regards to me not wanting to waste time, I don’t have a lot of time to play when classes are in session. Pardon if I would rather not waste a few hours wiping to the same fight in a farm party (I mention farm parties because the OP of this thread is explicitly talking about a party they set up for [Loot], which would imply “farm” and not “clear”/“learning”) trying to get a few clears in. As I said in a previous post, I give it three pulls. If we wipe three times—especially if its to the same mechanic—then I’m out.

There’s a time and place for helping, and a time and place for learning—weekly two-chest runs and farm runs are not the place for learning the content, and players should not be teaching other players how to do mechanics (or perform their roles properly) in a farm party. That is reserved for learning parties (and they should honestly know their role far before they ever venture into content like Savage).

If I sign up for a weekly two-chest run or a farm run for Savage (and this goes to EX as well), I expect players to know what they’re doing. That generally involves both mechanics and performing their role correctly. If I get in there and see people messing up the same mechanic multiple times, it’s not a farm. There’s clearly some learning that still needs to be done. Learning parties are different, where I actively expect wipes and actively expect people to not know everything there is to know about the fight. I tend to stick around as long as the party is together for learning if I have the time to spare.

[ZellosWilder]

I've only just came back to the game after 3yrs but I can clearly see the problem after doing Coil and Alexander Savage, the problem is "randomers"

It's better to spend a lot of time to get a group together and make a static so that everyone is used to each other, it's a lot more fun this way and you will make friends in doing so as well.

I've completed these "hard contents" with some with skilled players and some with new players who were never really confident in their skills in a MMO, most were new but if you point out what they were doing wrong and if they learn from doing it your team will improve and eventually clear the content, you really can't do that with random players as it's always the same result... They do not care... :/ it's about consistency in the group, tanks need a partnership so they know which roles they are doing during mechanics, healers also need to know how each other heals etc if everyone is the same every time then it makes things easier.

I also usually find that most players at endgame are elitists and are some of the worst players to meet in the game, you wipe or if anyone makes a mistake, they start to whine/cry and go full toxic mode, you also can't really tell them anything because they already think they are better than you and know everything already so they don't want to listen to you... you are going to meet lots of these types of players if you are doing it with random players. This never happens if you have a static and usually if they are new they are more willing to learn from you and they don't mind wiping.


My suggestion would be either spend some time and find players who want to do the same clears as you to create a static or make sure you put in PF "not to leave after a wipe" or tell each member when they join the party what you expect from them etc, if they know in advance then they are on the same page as you.

I'll be looking to get a group together for a static soon and while it might take a few weeks to get a group sorted it's also a good time where you can get a group ready for the new expansion as well.

[Thoosa]

Personally I don’t put any trust on the labels (Duty Complete, loot, etc) because Party Finder is a lottery.

My rule is if the group messes up the same mechanic 3 times in a Duty Complete or Farm, I go. If it’s a practice party it’s kinda frustrating when people leave instantly but it is what it is. :P

I think they should do something in practice parties to lock the phases out if you haven’t got through each one, it could make progression easier and less annoying