You can't "lock" something that doesn't exist.

[Fukuro]

i just don’t understand the meaning of this thread in general
call it genderlock/missing gender/limited race whatever - everyone knows what people mean by it, wether you agree with the term or not, it just feels like this thread is making a mountain of a molehill
the point is some people want the other genders added, you can discuss the terminology of the naming or whatever, the main point doesn‘t change at all
and if you think about it, this thread just makes people talk more about the „genderlocking“ (or whatever) issue even more
it is everybodys own choice what to make with the word „genderlock“ since it‘s not something everybody can agree with and until now everybody understood very well what was meant by it

[Lacan]

Futhermore... isn't this entire premise kind of flawed to begin with? You totally can lock something that doesn't exist. :v I mean, I've definitely heard of fictional locked stuff. If you've ever read a story with a locked door in it you've seen how something can be locked and not exist.

This whole thread is pointless.

[Melichoir]

What does gender-locked classes and race-locked classes have in common? Both have a feature (class in this case) in the game that you’re locked from accessing by either a gender or a race.

Now for the term gender-locked race to be correct (which I stated in my reply), there has to exist a model of the gender that you’re not able to access (locked from). If a male Viera NPC was to be seen in the game files, then the feature exists, and you’re locked from it. The only thing that exist for male Viera in this case is lore only.

Heres the logic

Race = A
Class = B
Gender = C

A class being locked to a Race = Race locked Class (A x B)

A Class being locked to a Gender = Gender Locked class. (C x B)

Logically

A Race being locked to a Gender = Gender Locked Race (C x A)

The structure demonstrated is something being limited to another facet, you can say it is Locked. That's the semantics argument. If the core criticism is saying "Genderlock" =/= "genderlocked race", then thats a contextual issue in regards to the discussion that isnt being addressed, since this game does not lock any class to a race or gender, so the Class aspect is irrelevant, and what we can discuss is Gender and Race.



Im pulling the semantics argument here specifically to point out the logic being used and why it is self defeating. If were strictly talking about semantics, what I illustrate above discredits the semantics point broadly. Instead, the big crucial caveat that youre trying to push is the game asset has to exist for it to be locked, an then turning the focus to the 'locked aspect' being used literally, rather than figuratively. Consider WoW, if a race cannot be a certain class, it is not race locked class if you include the assets point caveat because there is no in game asset for that race/class combination (and for clarity assets here is certain attack animations which do differ which is cosmetic assets). If we talk about mechanics, such as skills, then that falls apart in FFXIVs case cause there is no racial skills/passives, as class is purely cosmetic.

So if your argument flies for WoW is based on a selection choice, but only with gameplay mechanics and doesnt need to worry about cosmetics (animations, look and feel, etc), then it doesnt work with ffxiv as race is a purely cosmetic choice. If this argument about assets works for FFXIV and it is about cosmetics included, then WoW (or any MMO which does this) is race or gender locked to the max if the cosmetics between races/genders differs, making the term meaningless. As another quick example, Vindictus is not gender locked because some of those classes do not have a male equivilant assets....except in common discussions it is referred as such. See why if you include the asset portion it doesnt work half the time, and it's also depends on how you consider assets.

If we go by broad basics, where there is credible inference that a race and class exist, but that combination cant be played, then racelocked class makes sense. Much like if we go broad and say gender and race are options, but certain combinations cannot be played, then its gender locked.

[Fukuro]

honestly some arguments here get me to laugh. i‘ve encountered nobody that thinks SE ACTUALLY created male viera/female hrothgar thinking they are just withholding the missing genders from us, to validate their point that the term „genderlock“ is wrongly used. NOBODY really thought that- that‘s just a very silly and stupid argument... again i‘ve encountered NOONE saying even something similar to that

[Alucard135]

Heres the logic

Race = A
Class = B
Gender = C

A class being locked to a Race = Race locked Class (A x B)

A Class being locked to a Gender = Gender Locked class. (C x B)

Logically

A Race being locked to a Gender = Gender Locked Race (C x A).

That is the same reasoning as Crushnight said regarding being locked into something. Which I agree with you there. Yet, look at some of the responses here stating it's a gender lock because they're locked from a gender that is not yet available in the game. That is clearly not the same way you're stating it, so you can see why some don't see it that way.

honestly some arguments here get me to laugh. i‘ve encountered nobody that thinks SE ACTUALLY created male viera/female hrothgar thinking they are just withholding the missing genders from us, to validate their point that the term „genderlock“ is wrongly used. NOBODY really thought that- that‘s just a very silly and stupid argument... again i‘ve encountered NOONE saying even something similar to that

Yes, nobody thinks that....

Lol I love how you assume they are coming in 6.0,but SE could literally put them tomorrow and no one would ever have known they were ready. You don't know when they are going to put them, and stating the other genders are coming will come will get them a lot of hype for this expansion

[Joven]

You haven't really been paying attention. Female characters getting pigeonholed into looking cute and/or sexy happens all the time. It can be very difficult to escape it AND find a game with mechanics you like.

This may come as a surprise to you, but people, both male and female, like cute and/or sexy things. Weird, right? That's why models exist. That's why celebrities are lauded, because they're attractive.

But I didn't say I wanted to be beefy. I said bestial. Roes and highlanders don't qualify as that. So not only do you not pay attention to how females are usually represented in games in general, you also do not read.

I read what you said, I just didn't care enough to fix my reply.

I play a moon catgirl because I like the ears, the lion tail and the fangs. You know, bestial features.

Sure, keep telling yourself it's because those features are "beastial". Au ra, both Raen and Xaela, have far more options to make a beastial looking character if that's what you truely wanted. I guarantee if they were to release female Hrothgar to be as hulking and primal looking as the males are that you would have nothing to do with them.

I'm going to ask you a question and I want you to 100% honest with me and yourself: if they never announced new races for this expansion would you be on here right now complaining about the female characters being "too cute" and "too sexy", or complaining about "muh diversity" and lack of "beastial" female races? I'm going to go ahead and take a crack at the answer and say no, you wouldn't. You'd still be playing the game and none of these "issues" would never have crossed your mind.

[Penthea]

Sure, keep telling yourself it's because those features are "beastial".

I'd be very interested to see you explain how furry ears, furry tails, and fangs are not bestial features considering the hrothgar also have them.

Au ra, both Raen and Xaela, have far more options to make a beastial looking character if that's what you truely wanted.

I'm not sure how having patches of scales is any more bestial than having some fur and fangs? I suppose you think lizards are higher up in the bestial tree?

By the way I have an au ra alt that I play more than my main these days.

I guarantee if they were to release female Hrothgar to be as hulking and primal looking as the males are that you would have nothing to do with them.

I played Bless Online for a while, and I played a lupus. The other race options included a small cute race that could have animal features or none, elves and humans. I also had an elf character but I made her quite muscular and a bit stocky (she's a paladin so I wanted her to look physically strong) so she ended up not looking like a stereotypical slender elf.

The only reason why I was a blood elf in WoW was because of a racial I found very useful as a healer in pve and pvp. If races were purely cosmetic, I would have been a troll instead. I played competitively so every edge I could get mattered. When I retired from that scene I changed my race to troll. I ended up with tusks, a mohawk and no eyebrows.

One of my favourite characters I played in table top role playing was a half orc barbarian who dreamed of becoming a bard.

Sorry to disappoint you, but not everything I play looks like my main from FFXIV.

I'm going to ask you a question and I want you to 100% honest with me and yourself: if they never announced new races for this expansion would you be on here right now complaining about the female characters being "too cute" and "too sexy", or complaining about "muh diversity" and lack of "beastial" female races? I'm going to go ahead and take a crack at the answer and say no, you wouldn't. You'd still be playing the game and none of these "issues" would never have crossed your mind.

When I started playing this game properly it was already HW but at the time I only had a copy of ARR. So if I wanted to play a bestial race, miqo'te was my only choice. I nearly played a roe but the lion tail won me over. I didn't get a copy of HW until I was around lvl 48.

While playing I did note that the female au ra have similar proportions and height to female miqos. I appreciate that SE wanted to do some serious sexual dimorphism with the au ra, and honestly I do think that's cool, but the way they chose to do it resulted in bringing in a bit more of the same in the female spectrum. No tall and slim bestial males existed before au ra, but petite and cute bestial females already did with miqos, and for some reason SE chose to give the female au ra similar height and proportions to them.

On top of that female miqos aren't worlds apart from female midlanders. So we actually have three different races that fill the role of "slim petite female around the same size of a human" role.

This did bother me but not enough to affect my enjoyment in the game. It's when hrothgar was leaked that I started getting very annoyed. No male viera were announced so the likelihood was the "replacement" for male viera would be male hrothgar. Which would mean no female hrothgar. As you know, this is how it turned out.

Seeing male hrothgar feels like SE are almost dangling a thing I want in front of me. I played FFX so I know what female ronso looked like, and they were so cool. I'm very disappointed that female hrothgar isn't going to be playable for the foreseeable future.

And for the record I do like how my character looks. But I would make some changes if I could. I really wish there was a muscle slider for miqos, and if there was an option to make characters less slim then I would do that as well.

[reivaxe]

This may come as a surprise to you, but people, both male and female, like cute and/or sexy things. Weird, right? That's why models exist. That's why celebrities are lauded, because they're attractive.



I read what you said, I just didn't care enough to fix my reply.



Sure, keep telling yourself it's because those features are "beastial". Au ra, both Raen and Xaela, have far more options to make a beastial looking character if that's what you truely wanted. I guarantee if they were to release female Hrothgar to be as hulking and primal looking as the males are that you would have nothing to do with them.

I'm going to ask you a question and I want you to 100% honest with me and yourself: if they never announced new races for this expansion would you be on here right now complaining about the female characters being "too cute" and "too sexy", or complaining about "muh diversity" and lack of "beastial" female races? I'm going to go ahead and take a crack at the answer and say no, you wouldn't. You'd still be playing the game and none of these "issues" would never have crossed your mind.

Off topic but yeah, w/e.
I've been pointing to the stats for a long time now. Cat girls are played 17times more than Femroes. There is a huge gap in the numbers between female elezen/femroe and all the other races females. Roebros are played more than both femroe and femelzen and not that far from both combined or from male elezen. On top of that the demand for the Viera (only ever depicted as attractive females) was so great that they felt that they just had to add them.

Given the nature of how biased people have shown to be towards the cute/ attractive females in this game I pretty much feel like if you're not one of the 7k Femroes out There right now you're prob not gonna play beast headed Femroe ( again, the HROTHGAR are a different body shape than the Roebros, making then inverted triangle shapes heroic buff human shaped instead of long armed meat walls. but the femroe already have normalized tall buff human shape cause no one is gonna play Roebros with boobs and se refuses to give females the thickness. So yeah ... That's why we're getting things this way. They want to make as many people happy as they can and also bring some fantasy into these races)

[Joven]

I\\\\\\'d be very interested to see you explain how furry ears, furry tails, and fangs are not bestial features considering the hrothgar also have them.

I never said they weren\\\\\\'t, but the furry tails and ears on the Miqo\\\\\\'te serve only to add to their "cuteness" factor, not make them look beastial. Hrothgar have both the facial features and posture to actually convey "beastly".

I\\\\\\'m not sure how having patches of scales is any more bestial than having some fur and fangs? I suppose you think lizards are higher up in the bestial tree?

They also have horns and spiked tails. It\\\\\\'s easier to create a fierce looking or "more beastial" looking Au ra than Miqo\\\\\\'te because of their feature choices which is why I suggested them.

exposition dump

It's good that you are actually willing to play a race that's not considered cute, but it still doesn\\\\\\'t change the fact you actively chose a cute looking race/gender combo for *this game* to be your main when you had other non cute options like Roegadyn or Hyur highlander. Even male Miqo\\\\\\'te aren\\\\\\'t typically "cute" in the sense you mean if you\\\\\\'re sticking to your "beastial" claim.

mmore exposition dump

It was a simple yes or no question. There was no need for an exposition dump.

[Joven]

Off topic but yeah, w/e.
I've been pointing to the stats for a long time now. Cat girls are played 17times more than Femroes. There is a huge gap in the numbers between female elezen/femroe and all the other races females. Roebros are played more than both femroe and femelzen and not that far from both combined or from male elezen. On top of that the demand for the Viera (only ever depicted as attractive females) was so great that they felt that they just had to add them.

Given the nature of how biased people have shown to be towards the cute/ attractive females in this game I pretty much feel like if you're not one of the 7k Femroes out There right now you're prob not gonna play beast headed Femroe ( again, the HROTHGAR are a different body shape than the Roebros, making then inverted triangle shapes heroic buff human shaped instead of long armed meat walls. but the femroe already have normalized tall buff human shape cause no one is gonna play Roebros with boobs and se refuses to give females the thickness. So yeah ... That's why we're getting things this way. They want to make as many people happy as they can and also bring some fantasy into these races)

I have alts of each race and alternated them between male and female. When I made a Roe character it happened to fall on the male. Femroes aren't my first choice, but I have nothing against them. If I had more character slots on the same server then I would have a character for each race and gender because I like variety. As far as Hrothgar goes I'm actually excited for them.