What if we could "Champion" jobs?

[Ilan]

People already not knowing how to play their jobs with things that are currently in the game isn't really a very good argument for why something like that should be implemented. It would only give them yet another way to be completely oblivious of how to play. I also doubt it would get more tanks/healers in the duty finder queues; it'll probably be the opposite, people still playing their DPS classes and getting easy levels for tank/healer without any of the work or stress of playing them.

And I don't know what game you're playing, but content from level 1 to 70 isn't "dead". That makes literally no sense to say everything except endgame has no one playing it. People are always doing dungeons, raids, etc. and running around in early zones. Maybe if you wander around a bit instead of AFKing in Rhalgr's Reach you'd see that.

There's already a high amount of people who're going into raids not knowing how to play their job.

Adding this would increase it even further.

Do you two really think it would make a difference if people would have to play a class from 1-70 or not? If people don't give a sh.. they won't know how to play their class no matter if they have to level it from 1-70 or not. Get real people.

To the idea itself: I honestly don't know what to think of this idea because on one hand i could level up classes that i absolutly don't like to play, but on the other hand it feels kinda wrong.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I wouldn't mind a system like that, but I would say two limitations...

First, a level cap for it, I'd say 20 levels below the job's current level, at max level it would place it at the same level as new jobs start at with expansions (50 for SB, 60 Shadowbringers).

And secondly only between the same role (Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Caster DPS). Need to level normally one class of role, then you can boost up the rest of the classes of that role so you don't need to go from 1 to max if you want to try something different for the role.

[UserHere]

what part of leveling is dead? It's never hard or slow to level a job because of lack of people doing content.

[Gemina]

The main downside I see is the whole "But then we get high level players who don't know how to play the jobs!!" though, this isn't a new phenomena given the state of Jump Potions and PotD/HoH spam that often leads players to be wholly unaware on how to play the game...

Just because it's not a new phenomena doesn't mean we exacerbate the issue by allowing players to gain experience on a job they're not playing. Actual experience playing a job isn't measured by experience points or even job levels. It is measured by the content you complete playing that job.

As an example, we had a RDM in Orbonne the other night that was still on his feet with a full HP and MP gauge, the rest of us were KO'd, and we had a full LB3 gauge ready to go. Everyone was telling him to raise one of the healers so they can LB. Instead he swam around the arena for a good couple of minutes until he finally died. The last thing anyone wants is this RDM giving exp to his BLM or SMN when he still has a long way to go actually learning how to play RDM in raids with that job.

[Vanitas]

Something Something "too lazy to put the effort into actually leveling the job" /thread

[Kalise]

Just because it's not a new phenomena doesn't mean we exacerbate the issue by allowing players to gain experience on a job they're not playing. Actual experience playing a job isn't measured by experience points or even job levels. It is measured by the content you complete playing that job.

As an example, we had a RDM in Orbonne the other night that was still on his feet with a full HP and MP gauge, the rest of us were KO'd, and we had a full LB3 gauge ready to go. Everyone was telling him to raise one of the healers so they can LB. Instead he swam around the arena for a good couple of minutes until he finally died. The last thing anyone wants is this RDM giving exp to his BLM or SMN when he still has a long way to go actually learning how to play RDM in raids with that job.

But one could argue that playing other jobs through levels 1-69 doesn't actually teach you much about the actual job. (Especially BLM and SMN whom have pretty drastic gameplay shifts... BLM at level 60 when getting Fire IV changes a LOT, then also changes a second time upon hitting 70 and getting Foul and the Polyglot resource. SMN is similar changing substantially at level 58 with Dreadwyrm Trance and then again at 70 with Demi-Bahamut)

Nor does leveling seem to grant people the innate ability to use their brains. Such is the case of that RDM you encountered whom, not only could not play their job very well, but also couldn't understand the people telling them what they needed to do. This is seen irregardless of how someone leveled their job, be it through grinding it out on said job, spamming easy duties (Like Deep Dungeons), doing the MSQ, leveling an alternate job (See: SMN/SCH. I didn't actually play SMN at all 30-70 outside doing job quests) or even soon, playing a newly released job (Hello, GNB + DNC starting at level 60!)

I still feel that, outside of this specific suggestion, there needs to be more emphasis on actually getting people to bother learning to play the game. With things such as minimum item level requirements on leveling duties, more things like Hall of the Novice (I.e. Hall of the Intermediate, Hall of the Advanced and Hall of the Expert... Maybe even a Hall of the Ultimate) and some more gruelling challenges for people to face (As Side Quests so as to not flood the forums with salty scrub tears when someone can't beat a MSQ or Job Quest).

Making people bother to actually try, instead of just trying to dummyproof anything that could be a QoL improvement for people who give a damn about performing to an adequate standard (Not necessarily min/max, but good enough to not be an actively detrimental member of a party)

But that's a thing that is independent of said suggestion and I'd argue actually independent of all the forms of "Rushed" leveling of a job that lets you get many levels with little applicable gametime on said job.

Something Something "too lazy to put the effort into actually leveling the job" /thread

Well, if you noted, it would take exactly the same effort to level the job as the job as it would to "Champion" one due to the suggested experience scaling.

Also, noteworthy, is the fact that I've actually personally leveled 13/16 combat classes (Also 10/11 non-combat classes) up to max level with the remaining ones being level 60+

So it's not really that much of a case of "Being too lazy" to do it.

[Doozer]

1-60 is dead. There is only a few newbies in ARR content and that's about it. No-one does ARR/HW FATEs (Even SB FATEs you only occasionally see people doing the Twist of Fate ones)

You're literally just seeing what you want to see. I was in Middle La Noscea yesterday doing mysterious maps for my Zodiac weapon and saw nearly a dozen people running around doing different things, both new and experienced players. Even if you're too lazy to go there, you can do a player search for regions and see that there are people there. There's just less now than in ARR days because they're spread out differently.

[Kalise]

You're literally just seeing what you want to see. I was in Middle La Noscea yesterday doing mysterious maps for my Zodiac weapon and saw nearly a dozen people running around doing different things, both new and experienced players. Even if you're too lazy to go there, you can do a player search for regions and see that there are people there. There's just less now than in ARR days because they're spread out differently.

I guess it must be server differences.

I was there today, yesterday, the day before, and the day before that and most days actually the past few weeks. I only saw about 5-6 sprouts and that was it.

I go to Middle La Noscea frequently, for Hunts, see.

So, while everyone can assume I'm sat in Rhalgr's Reach all day every day, the fact is, I'm not. I'm actively going into pretty much every zone in the game on a near daily basis.

[Shougun]

I actually would use this and wouldn't mind it, although perhaps just to push back against some of the arguments that "you haven't played a job" the idea could be shifted a bit to a feature that is something akin to the gold/orange fountains in D3 or in other words a special type of rested exp.

This special type of rested exp now known as Champion exp (Orange Juice, or whatever tickles your fancy lol) will boost exp from all sources (including dungeons, quests, etc). So if you had rested exp, armory bonus, and this orange juice, you'd have like 400-500% exp bonus. Make it so once you cap out the juice you can cap it again as a rate multiplier upgrade (but doesn't increase the total amount of exp rewarded, you'll have to use up the juice so you can earn more). In other words imagine your rest exp bonus which gives you say a 100% exp bonus until you get 100 exp now when you double cap it then it would give you 200% bonus exp until you get to 100 exp (not increasing the total amount but greatly improving your speed for that amount).

Capped out armory, rested, and the juice would feel something like playing blue mage at least for a few levels (until the juice and rested run out). On the subject of blue mage though - could technically use this system to make alternative leveling methods valid for short periods of time (fill up the juice bar, now you have like 300%+ bonus exp from open world sources for about a level or two.. then you got to collect up the champion/juice bar again or go back into dungeons).

Also just to toss another item into the chaos, we have SMN and SCH which share the same exp bar but are completely different concepts (healer vs damage dealer, I suppose on low/easy content SCH can feel like a damage dealer though.. yay afk fairy lol).

Anyway, having it act as a bonus would mean people would still play their jobs and because they're max leveled to get this juice they should understand some basic concepts of the game such that an accelerated leveling curve is acceptable to still learning their job. Also with it being a bar that can cap out it encourages players to alternate their play a bit, which could be helpful in keeping things lively (not doing the same task over and over).

[Gemina]

But one could argue that playing other jobs through levels 1-69 doesn't actually teach you much about the actual job. (Especially BLM and SMN whom have pretty drastic gameplay shifts... BLM at level 60 when getting Fire IV changes a LOT, then also changes a second time upon hitting 70 and getting Foul and the Polyglot resource. SMN is similar changing substantially at level 58 with Dreadwyrm Trance and then again at 70 with Demi-Bahamut)ing that could be a QoL improvement for people who give a damn about performing to an adequate standard (Not necessarily min/max, but good enough to not be an actively detrimental member of a party).

This and everything else you stated is all the more reason to not allow one job to gain exp for another. Gameplay changes at level 70 is not an excuse for this allowance, and the invalidation people toss around for levels 1-69 is not a reason that is going to hold up with me for not knowing how to play your job at 70. All jobs learn and use a plethora of abilities prior to hitting level 70, and I fully expect you to know how to use them when going into Orbonne or other content filled with the game trying to end your attempt at a clear.

Also, noteworthy, is the fact that I've actually personally leveled 13/16 combat classes (Also 10/11 non-combat classes) up to max level with the remaining ones being level 60+

So it's not really that much of a case of "Being too lazy" to do it.

I'm not going to call you lazy, but the impression I get is that you strongly dislike having to go back into older content because you've spent so much time there already. Your dedication to doing so thus far is not underappreciated. At least not by me. However, if this was a thing, those of your mentality would not be found in the queues for the players needing to level up making the process far more arduous for them than it was for you. Not cool. You are not forced to get all jobs to max level by any means; it is a choice. You gotta earn to learn in this game, and I highly agree with this philosophy enforced by the devs.