Content Finder

[Rousseau]

Even WoW doesn't have raids as part of the dungeon finder.

When's the last time you played WoW? They added a raid finder for Dragon Soul. It's possible to go in and kill the final boss in less than an hour, if you play your cards right. At most, it might take a few hours, with no previous experience needed. The only reason to keep playing after that is to get more gear, gear that will be outdated by the time the next expansion is released. To me, this is a bad move. The game functions like an assembly line now, and there is no reason to play just for the sake of having fun, especially since everyone is rushing to get everything ASAP and is always in a horrible mood.

This is a great idea. You don't need to use it: you'll still have your LS, the party search function, your linkshell, and shouting. But if you log on, you're tired and want to do something exciting because you really don't have that much time, this is your knight in shining armor. It's as simple as that.

I know what you're trying to say, but this line of thinking is flawed. Once something like this is introduced, it becomes standard. Everyone begins to do it that way, due to convenience, and it becomes nigh impossible to find groups the "normal" way. I still have my WoW account active, and I play it sometimes, but I pretty much switched to FFXIV because of how horrible WoW has become. I love my guildmates, but even they tend to do content finder before trying to make a guild group, because it's easier and it gets them rewards faster. Just about every guild I see handles things the same way. All anyone cares about is how quickly they can get the next best piece of gear, so they can wear it while dancing on a mailbox, and they will do ANYTHING in order to get it. This usually includes fighting with people from the moment they enter a randomly assigned dungeon, if they choose to talk at all.

There are some things WoW does right, and I think FFXIV should pick up on those. Mostly in the area of the UI, questing, and a few other things. I'd like to hope that everything else that makes FF what it is will stay, such as attunements, the necessity to work well with others, and the slower pace. Part of what has ruined WoW is the spastic speed at which everything occurs. It ramps people up and makes them not only aggressive, but they expect everything to be handed to them instantly. Add-ons are another issue, and I really hope nothing like Deadly Boss Mods or DPS counters are allowed. That will create even more aggressive behavior and put the devs on a path to making content more and more convoluted.

If they are reading this, I hope they are able to learn from WoW, both by what Blizzard has done well and what they have screwed up. A 100% WoW clone would be a disaster.

[Jinko]

When's the last time you played WoW? They added a raid finder for Dragon Soul. It's possible to go in and kill the final boss in less than an hour, if you play your cards right. At most, it might take a few hours, with no previous experience needed. The only reason to keep playing after that is to get more gear, gear that will be outdated by the time the next expansion is released. To me, this is a bad move. The game functions like an assembly line now, and there is no reason to play just for the sake of having fun, especially since everyone is rushing to get everything ASAP and is always in a horrible mood.

Oh really ?

Sounds good to me, I am in favour of MMO's that are gear progressive, people in my LS have been wanting to do In to the Dark for months now and nobody is interested in going in there, this is exactly why a dungeon finder would be helpful.

As someone above said nobody is forcing anyone to use this.

Of course if everyone does start to rely on it then it means people want to use it.

I used to play WoW also I'm not fooling myself like you though that the reason I left had anything to do with the dungeon finder, the game has just become old and boring that's all.

Add-ons are another issue, and I really hope nothing like Deadly Boss Mods or DPS counters are allowed

We already have parsers and there is a good chance someone will programme an addon to shout out messages onscreen when it is detected in the battle log.

Again if you and the community hate them so much you won't need to use them.

That will create even more aggressive behavior and put the devs on a path to making content more and more convoluted.

SE don't need any help with that I assure you, just check out the primal loot system.

We really should be having this discussion now, while they are still working on the 2.0 client. If we don't let Yoshi-P know what we think, he can't even consider our suggestions

The 2.0 servers and game engine are all but finished, I doubt Yoshi-p will go back on this now.

[Rousseau]

Oh really ?

Ah, what a wonderful way to begin...

As someone above said nobody is forcing anyone to use this.

Of course if everyone does start to rely on it then it means people want to use it.

Wrong. People do what they feel they need to in order to compete. That is how people think. Create a free-for-all, and people take the easiest road, which is not necessarily the best for the entire group. Just because people want something does not mean they should be allowed to have it.

Sounds good to me, I am in favour of MMO's that are gear progressive, people in my LS have been wanting to do In to the Dark for months now and nobody is interested in going in there, this is exactly why a dungeon finder would be helpful.

...

I used to play WoW also I'm not fooling myself like you though that the reason I left had anything to do with the dungeon finder, the game has just become old and boring that's all.

See, this attitude is the very kind that I wish would stay in WoW and not begin to infect FFXIV. We don't need things that are going to make it easy for this sort of thinking and behavior to spread around and be rewarded.

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. We're allowed to be a member of eight, so it's not like you can't try to find another that contains people who are interested in doing what you want. Just like in FFXI, people had an LS for each kind of activity they wanted to engage in, and now you can see the chatter of all of them at once. If that doesn't work, wait for the merge and learn to be content with what you do have.

SE don't need any help with that I assure you, just check out the primal loot system.

Loot systems do not make up an entire encounter. If you think they do, then that is yet another example I shall point to as to the wrong-headed thinking that will destroy this game. "It's all about me and my loot, screw everyone else!" Yeah, no thanks. I'll be over here simply trying to have fun with other people in my community, working together to accomplish similar goals and helping them with whatever I can...because that is what I believe should be at the core of a game like this, and nothing else. Feel free to have a different opinion, but I want nothing to do with it.

The 2.0 servers and game engine are all but finished, I doubt Yoshi-p will go back on this now.

If Blizzard is capable of adding and removing features each patch, then SE can do it before a new client is released. It's not that difficult. Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks who do nothing but try to clamor over each other for the next best piece of gear, like people at Walmart do on Black Friday.

All in all, lets have some real content first before we need to worry about weather getting a finder for it will be neccessary or not?

Yoshi-P has already started to talk about it, hence why I brought it up. I think it's better to discuss and consolidate suggestions now, rather than wait until it's completely finished.

[Jinko]

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. .

I did it months ago, I said people in my LS wanted to do it, yes I'm willing to help them, my LS is awesome for what its worth.

The problem at the moment is that hardly anyone is playing, not just in my LS but across the board, which makes content like DH difficult to do.

1. Because people are not motivated to do it due to the drops being useless since the addition of Materia.
2. Not enough people playing to make up a decent party.

Both of which can be circumvented with a content finder.

But yea you go ahead and pick out the negative points in my post, we don't want people like me playing FFXIV.. "go play wow!!"

I sure told myself.

Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks.

Is this supposed to be irony :P ?

My point was !!, that the server structure has been designed in clusters which is what will allow cross server interaction, you think after all that hard work they are just guna say ahhh screw this just because a few people don't want it..

What about the people who do want it ?

For all the effort you put into deconstructing my post you sure are close minded, but as long as you are happy right ?

[Sylvari]

I did it months ago, I said people in my LS wanted to do it, yes I'm willing to help them, my LS is awesome for what its worth.

The problem at the moment is that hardly anyone is playing, not just in my LS but across the board, which makes content like DH difficult to do.

1. Because people are not motivated to do it due to the drops being useless since the addition of Materia.
2. Not enough people playing to make up a decent party.

Both of which can be circumvented with a content finder.

This is a very logical view and the fact of the matter, at the current point in time there is little activity going on with quite a few of the servers, and again the lack of motivation is purely based on the reward, because the reward isn't enticing enough ppl wont just go rushing to join in. A broken loot system, A lack of or bad reward or even a lack of activity can really make things hard or not fun at all. A lot of ppl said that level sync ruined FFXI, but that's what an elitist is, Someone that's ignorant. The level sync system really fixed a problem that FFXI had by making it easier to make a group. To summarize, Don't knock it till you try it, And let the professionals weigh the risks.

[Rousseau]

I did it months ago, I said people in my LS wanted to do it, yes I'm willing to help them, my LS is awesome for what its worth.

The problem at the moment is that hardly anyone is playing, not just in my LS but across the board, which makes content like DH difficult to do.

1. Because people are not motivated to do it due to the drops being useless since the addition of Materia.
2. Not enough people playing to make up a decent party.

Both of which can be circumvented with a content finder.

For starters, people should run content because they enjoy it and the company they play with. It is a foreign idea to me to play a game simply to get gear. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not a big deal, especially if it's not necessary.

Second, I never said that a content finder should not happen at all, but rather that it should not be like WoW's and should be handled very delicately. I am unsure if the worldess system is a good idea, since it breaks down reliance on the local community, which is necessary in order to foster proper and meaningful social experience.

But yea you go ahead and pick out the negative points in my post, we don't want people like me playing FFXIV.. "go play wow!!"

If you already think your comment was negative, and not what you think is best from your own perspective, then why did you leave it? I simply don't agree with you and I don't like your tone, and it worries me if you are/were on board with the way WoW works, since I believe strongly that it is inherently flawed.

Whether you believe my reasoning or not, I have been disaffected with WoW since the content finder went live in Wrath, and I hardly ever use the damn thing. I'd rather miss out on the content than deal with the people in there, and it eventually occurred to me that there was no reason to log in often if I couldn't see myself enjoying anything other than questing and the occasional raid with my guild (the latter of which stopped being fun a while ago, due to the nature of WoW's raids and the new raid finder). I started playing FFXIV for a specific reason, because it has an overall better social atmosphere. The last thing I want is to see that ruined.

[Jinko]

I simply don't agree with you and I don't like your tone, and it worries me if you are/were on board with the way WoW works, since I believe strongly that it is inherently flawed.

Don't fret I am but one person (as are you) we don't have the power to change things on our own, hence why we have these forums.

I just have to disagree with that. It's hard to have a game without loot, but the RPG genre is based on story, and an online game is about playing with other people. Loot is just an extra carrot to dangle from the end of the stick, but it is by far the defining principle of a MMO.

The offline RPG genre is based on story, the online one is based on working together to complete content (normally in the form of slaying a particular monster or conquering a specific dungeon) and getting rewarded for doing so.

Humans are naturally greedy so yes loot generally becomes the bane of the experience but that's just the way we are.

Ninja looting and rude players are not inherent to just WoW ya know.

[Sylvari]

Don't fret I am but one person (as are you) we don't have the power to change things on our own, hence why we have these forums.

LOL...

The offline RPG genre is based on story, the online one is based on working together to complete content (normally in the form of slaying a particular monster or conquering a specific dungeon) and get rewarded for doing so.

I play games for the story, I don't care what game it is.. I play em all for the story. But rewards are always great, Makes everything seem worth it. Kinda makes you think "Why do ppl try so hard just for an achievement" The shiny little title is a reward too. A perfect balance of Story, game play and reward makes a great game. :3

[Sylvari]

Wrong. People do what they feel they need to in order to compete. That is how people think. Create a free-for-all, and people take the easiest road, which is not necessarily the best for the entire group. Just because people want something does not mean they should be allowed to have it.

That is true.

See, this attitude is the very kind that I wish would stay in WoW and not begin to infect FFXIV. We don't need things that are going to make it easy for this sort of thinking and behavior to spread around and be rewarded.

No offense but i really feel like your coming off with a stronger attitude than he is, and to be perfectly honest these forums are here for us to debate our views and opinions so SE can make decisions based on feed back.

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. We're allowed to be a member of eight, so it's not like you can't try to find another that contains people who are interested in doing what you want. Just like in FFXI, people had an LS for each kind of activity they wanted to engage in, and now you can see the chatter of all of them at once. If that doesn't work, wait for the merge and learn to be content with what you do have.

I agree, If your friends don't wanna get up and go then make new friends that will.

Loot systems do not make up an entire encounter. If you think they do, then that is yet another example I shall point to as to the wrong-headed thinking that will destroy this game. "It's all about me and my loot, screw everyone else!" Yeah, no thanks. I'll be over here simply trying to have fun with other people in my community, working together to accomplish similar goals and helping them with whatever I can...because that is what I believe should be at the core of a game like this, and nothing else. Feel free to have a different opinion, but I want nothing to do with it.

I believe a bad loot system can really ruin a game, So the encounter is about risk and reward. A bad loot system is like getting kick in the butt for a job well done. In bold, I actually like that view, ppl should learn to work together when they have similar goals but just because someone has different views or opinion's doesn't mean they ain't valid.

If Blizzard is capable of adding and removing features each patch, then SE can do it before a new client is released. It's not that difficult. Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks who do nothing but try to clamor over each other for the next best piece of gear, like people at Walmart do on Black Friday.

Although with the current client it does seem hard for them to do things i do believe with 2.0 they will be able to change how things work if they so desire. Also every MMO has you rampaging and rushing to have the best gear every patch or expansion that has upgrades, That is the essence that keeps a MMO going, Some come for the story but others like the reward and trying to be the best.

[Jinko]

Also every MMO has you rampaging and rushing to have the best gear every patch or expansion that has upgrades, That is the essence that keeps a MMO going, Some come for the story but others like the reward and trying to be the best.

Quoted for truth.

Gear and progression is what keeps people playing MMO's, when moogle and Ifrit were added people couldn't wait to get their hand on the newest items.

Just as they will with the new job specific gear, its the way these games are made, pretending WoW is the evil demon of MMO is kind of silly when LOOT!! is the foundation the genre is built upon.