Limit Break too Limiting

[Shadowbringer]

Ok, lets make this more simple.

If I.... can do more.... damage.... by not using LB.... and the party... can do more... damage... by having someone else LB.... even maybe a Tank... to cheese a mechanic.... I am not... doing my job.... wrong.

This is how tank selfish started, because none of them want to LB, easy example M/F or Red fists, because "my dps"
And you know what, without Echo you can still kill M/F before any mechanics on the last phase ever happens, if 1 of M/F already dead you can have melee LB2 the one that still alive so we can probably only get Meteor+Arrow or none at all, but no, "my dps" let tank do the whole mechanics + LB and have the fight longer for a few seconds, "Slightly longer".

EDIT : to your added comment

No its not, it make no difference to the group, it doesnt make a fight faster, it doesnt benefits group if the fight is any how slightly longer than not LB, it make your fflogs looks good and thats it.

" If I do 100~300 more damage by not using LB... then using it is a DPS loss.... which means it is WORSE. -100 DPS is not a good thing. Why would you want someone to do less damage on purpose?!? "
Answer : LB is 3% and your small dps is not even 1%, LB is faster here in anyway you arguing, not LB here make the fight longer, less effective for group wise.

Ummm... OFC I would want to do that.... Because that would actually be a huge DPS gain not a loss. Why is this hard to understand?
Answer : it doesnt matter who did it, you wont make a fight any faster anyway, but you still have to do it in Halicarnassus/Guardian example, but Caster one is more easier to execute yet you have Range did it, its FFlogs selfishness in this case.

[WaterShield]

This is how tank selfish started, because none of them want to LB, easy example M/F or Red fists, because "my dps"
And you know what, without Echo you can still kill M/F before any mechanics on the last phase ever happens, if 1 of M/F already dead you can have melee LB2 the one that still alive so we can probably only get Meteor+Arrow or none at all, but no, "my dps" let tank do the whole mechanics + LB and have the fight longer for a few seconds, "Slightly longer".

Mate.... do you even raid? I'm legitimately beginning to think that you don't.

TLDR Logs encourage faster clears which are better for everyone. This is the last I will say on the subject. Good day.

[Shadowbringer]

Mate.... do you even raid? I'm legitimately beginning to think that you don't.

TLDR Logs encourage faster clears which are better for everyone. This is the last I will say on the subject. Good day.

Fastest logs run in Omega without Echo is cheesing LB3 in 1st Flamethrower, and they kill it before Panto2 ever happens/cast, its even before they need to move the boss to the middle.
Sure you probably raiding, but probably normie tier or so, if you want to argue about speed run, the fastest run this and last tier is how many LB they can get in that fight, Demon Chadarnook and Omega is a good example, not like you know how fast or how many LB they use anyway.

Edit : i just checked my main none-echo logs, and my fastest run on Final Omega was 8:45, my group LB it because we dont want to do 2nd Archive All, you ever skip 2nd Archive All without melee LB the whole fight? i would be delight to see if you/your group did(with Echo its easy to do now so whatever i guess)

[WaterShield]

Fastest logs run in Omega without Echo is cheesing LB3 in 1st Flamethrower, and they kill it before Panto2 ever happens/cast, its even before they need to move the boss to the middle.
Sure you probably raiding, but probably normie tier or so, if you want to argue about speed run, the fastest run this and last tier is how many LB they can get in that fight, Demon Chadarnook and Omega is a good example, not like you know how fast or how many LB they use anyway.

Edit : i just checked my main none-echo logs, and my fastest run on Final Omega was 8:45, my group LB it because we dont want to do 2nd Archive All, you ever skip 2nd Archive All without melee LB the whole fight? i would be delight to see if you/your group did.

Ok... you enticed me back into the conversation.

So to clarify. You were speed running with a group of toxic people who won't LB bc it's a DPS loss? Or are you suggesting that using LB can actually make a fight shorter and therefore increase everyone's DPS?

Basically the point I've been arguing from the beginning. That logs do not encourage people to not use LB. That it isn't as black and white of an issue as you are making out.
But clearly logs were incentivizing you to not use LB.

Edit: This is legitimately the last I will say on the matter though as you are now brandishing your logs as a weapon and becoming insulting.

[WaterShield]

To be back on topic I'm fine with the way LB works as is.

[Shadowbringer]

Ok... you enticed me back into the conversation.

So to clarify. You were speed running with a group of toxic people who won't LB bc it's a DPS loss? Or are you suggesting that using LB can actually make a fight shorter and therefore increase everyone's DPS?

Basically the point I've been arguing from the beginning. That logs do not encourage people to not use LB. That it isn't as black and white of an issue as you are making out.
But clearly logs were incentivizing you to not use LB.

Edit: This is legitimately the last I will say on the matter though as you are now brandishing your logs as a weapon and becoming insulting.

I mean, i wouldnt bring up my logs if you didnt look down on me and questions "if i ever raid", so i kinda have to shoot that back to you and ask how fair you are.
For me, i dont speed run outside of my group, since its not worth the time you going to spend on PF to get a good logs.

But FFlogs encourage people to NOT LB because they lost self DPS, is what i see from my experience.
LB at the right time will always make the fight faster, but the person that LB always lose slightly dps.
I cleared Final Omega for 24 times now since Echo(only count Echo logs), and my Warrior(which is not even my main class) get 92 percentile easily from PF but it could be 95 you know if someone would LB, we might even be able to skip 2nd Archive All, you know... (its not even Uptime strat or logs run / nor anyone cares about logs anymore after Echo)
In short it could be faster if someone (melee)LB, but no "my deeps"

Edit : if you ask why am i running it again for 24 times, i just getting a book for Gunbreaker/Dancer because i cant get a coffer(2 weapons and in case Dancer have an exclusive armor, which i doubt it)

[WaterShield]

I mean, i wouldnt bring up my logs if you didnt look down on me and questions "if i ever raid", so i kinda have to shoot that back to you and ask how fair you are.
For me, i dont speed run outside of my group, since its not worth the time you going to spend on PF to get a good logs.

But FFlogs encourage people to NOT LB because they lost self DPS, is what i see from my experience.
LB at the right time will always make the fight faster, but the person that LB always lose slightly dps.
I cleared Final Omega for 24 times now since Echo(only count Echo logs), and my Warrior(which is not even my main class) get 92 percentile easily from PF but it could be 95 you know if someone would LB, we might even be able to skip 2nd Archive All, you know... (its not even Uptime strat or logs run / nor anyone cares about logs anymore after Echo)
In short it could be faster if someone (melee)LB, but no "my deeps"

Edit : if you ask why am i running it again for 24 times, i just getting a book for Gunbreaker/Dancer because i cant get a coffer(2 weapons and in case Dancer have an exclusive armor, which i doubt it)

Clearly you and I couldn't have had any more different experiences in Savage then. I have seen people use logs as a reason to improve and down boss quicker. You seem to be seeing it as only bringing problems. We will not see eye to eye on the matter.

I apologize if you thought I was insulting you when I asked if you even raided. I was legitimately considering that as a reason we couldn't understand each other. I have become more and more frustrated talking to you about this as I do not understand your point of view, and likely never will. If you truly aren't taking up your stance solely to be antagonistic, I have no further reason to speak to you about this as again. We clearly will not be changing the other persons views.

Edit: Also taking this any further would derail the topic even further. Please understand.

[Shadowbringer]

Clearly you and I couldn't have had any more different experiences in Savage then. I have seen people use logs as a reason to improve and down boss quicker. You seem to be seeing it as only bringing problems. We will not see eye to eye on the matter.

- "Self improve" by bragging i have 95 percentile+ because i didnt touch LB a single time is not self improve, that is selfishness on another level.

- Not LB boss at all doesnt make the fight faster in anyway.

- It is a problem when 90% of the dps players refuse to LB because they complain about their own FFlogs.

EDIT : Its about LB, no matters how good Square Enix fix it, if its not going to be use then its futile, "because i lost my own dps reason and FFlogs is the main reason for "im not going to use LB"".