Thread: Summoner 5.0 changes - summoning -

Originally Posted by KaerisKlyne

Arguably, is it even really a Summoner at that point? The only pet-related abilities are Rouse, Enkindle, Devotion, and Contagion if you have Garuda out (and even then Contagion is only pet-centric to give Garuda something to do, it could just as easily be a part of my own kit as the caster and there wouldn't be a difference). Summoner does indeed play quite smoothly right now, but outside of 4 skills in a 30+ skill kit, everything is coming from me as the caster while the pet just kind of autos or uses a single extra skill on command while I have GCDs rolling. Don't call me a Summoner if it's a one-and-done with occasional BahaMage shenanigans.

When I think summoner, having complete control over the entity summoned isn't a necessary part of the concept. It could be, but I think that a summoner that summons a mostly autonomous pet still fits the description.

I can see your point about the pet being a bit underwhelming when it comes to egis, though Bahamut feels pretty special.

I genuinely believe Arcanist was always meant for Scholar. Everything in the kit outside of the Ruin line of spells falls so perfectly in line with what Scholars are about. I understand the game needs a DoT-based DPS job as an MMO staple, but I don't think SMN was the way to introduce that. DWT and Demi-Baha are steps toward better gameplay for SMN, and I think if we're going to talk about job tweaks, we should be talking about tweaks to the kit that either center on smoother egi control, or the elimination of egi and filler damage for a dedicated summon-centric series of burst trances that lead up to demi summons.

I'm not really comparing SMN in FF14 with classes from other games, or looking at common MMO tropes. I just like summoner for what it is currently. Smoother egi control is something I completely support, but other than that I play the class for what it is and I don't want to lose it for a thematic change or alteration.

There is an idea that I've mused on before that might solve the issue, although I don't know how realistic it would be to add to the game. If we had subclasses, SE could provide multiple ways of playing a single job. For summoner we might see a DoT subclass and a summon (needs a better name) subclass. The first would be summoner as it is now while the second would be what you're asking for. It could be a nice way to increase class count without requiring the resources needed to create an entirely new class, at least if it's feasible at all.

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

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I'd be more inclined to be okay with it as is if the egi were actually entirely autonomous, but this doesn't hold up at all levels of play. Bahammy DOES feel special. I love it! The only thing I'd like them to address is Baha's unnecessary prioritization of movement to stay close to the caster when in essence, it's just a harder hitting Garuda-egi that doesn't NEED to move. Nor does that forced immobility lend itself to the scripted mechanical execution of encounter design.

I don't think I was really comparing it to Summoners of other games, either, but it really can't be denied that our DoTs are absolutely leftover filler. The only problem I have with summoner is that it's the only job with such a split focus in concept. Either lean in hard on being the build-up DoT mage, or lean in hard to trances and evoking primal energies, but one is definitely filler damage building toward the real heart of SMN gameplay right now. The entire problem at hand right now is what Summoner "is", and the quick answer is "it's a bit of a couple things but not really either thing specifically".