Healer identity in 5.0

**Ceasaria** · 03-28-2019 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Bobsmiaw

I have some ideas about this

Diurnal Sect:
Grant you the ability to draw offensive arcana to aid your allies.
Under this sect you can only Draw and Redraw Balance, Spear, or Arrow.
Using Minor Arcana will always grant you Lord of Crowns.
Cooldowns: 10 sec? or maybe longer?
Also possible to Sect swap during battle.

Nocturnal Sect:
Grant you the ability to draw defensive arcana to aid your allies.
Under this sect you can only Draw and Redraw Bole, Ewer, or Spire.
Using Minor Arcana will always grant you Lady of Crowns.
Cooldowns: 10 sec? or maybe longer?
Also possible to Sect swap during battle.

With this Sect effect on card, we can minimize the RNG of our cards.
Sleeve Draw will not affected by Sect. You can get all type of cards.
If you want to Redraw after Sleeve Draw, the Redraw is still affected by the Sect.

Ha nice !
We would have Diurnal cards deck and Nocturnal cards deck.
I like that.
Hmm, but in that case we need to exchange Royal Road for Spear with Spire or we would have 150% / double duration / double duration for diurnal deck,
and 150% / AOE / AOE for nocturnal deck.
I wonder too what could be the new effect of Spire (Movement speed ? Instant cast ? a kind of Mantra ? ...).

**SkyEdge1** · 03-28-2019 10:49 PM

So just dropping by to say, that after my initial disappointment at DNC being a dps (my fiance was really looking forward to sexy twirly heals) and reading some of the post interviews, I can KIND of see what they are saying when it comes to balance.
I think they meant to say that atm, healers are not in a bad state against each other balance wise. They are in a poor state against the game itself specifically the design and requirements of healing. I think that's what they mean to address by saying they plan on making fundamental changes to the healing classes. I gotta say I'm immensely curious with how they go about it, and how it will influence fight design and Tank/Dps behaviour!

**Bobsmiaw** · 03-28-2019 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Ha nice !
We would have Diurnal cards deck and Nocturnal cards deck.
I like that.
Hmm, but in that case we need to exchange Royal Road for Spear with Spire or we would have 150% / double duration / double duration for diurnal deck,
and 150% / AOE / AOE for nocturnal deck.
I wonder too what could be the new effect of Spire (Movement speed ? Instant cast ? a kind of Mantra ? ...).

Thanks

Well you can Spread it (Balance, Arrow, or Spear) then change Sect to Draw Ewer/Spire for AoE Royal Road.
The opposite can also be done (Royal Road then find a suitable card).
The idea is Sect only affect Draw, Redraw, and Minor Arcana.

Changing Sect will not affect the card if it is already in Spread, Minor Arcana, or Royal Road.
The effect is similar with Sleeve Draw, it will not overwrite the card in your deck (like if you already have cards in Draw, Spread, Royal Road, or Minor Arcana)

I wish we can reduce a lot of RNG with this. So AST can buff the party constantly.
It also make AoE Bole for mitigation more viable.

**Ceasaria** · 03-28-2019 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bobsmiaw

I wish we can reduce a lot of RNG with this. So AST can buff the party constantly.
It also make AoE Bole for mitigation more viable.

Yeah, that's the next step I want to see for AST improvement.

**Bobsmiaw** · 03-28-2019 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Yeah, that's the next step I want to see for AST improvement.

If this is what SE will do, we will have 3 types of healer: HoT, Shield, and Buff.
This will leave an empty space for 1 more healer which can be a debuff type healer.
In the ancient time healer have access to debuffs such as Virus and Disable (well we can still use Disable in PVP as AST, WEIRD!!!).
Now the only healer that have access to debuff is SCH with Chain Strategem.
Both Holy (WHM) and Celestial Opposition (AST) cannot be counted as debuff because most bosses cannot be stunned.
Now SCH has everything from shield, regen (Embrace + Whispering Dawn), mitigation (Soil + Covenant), buff (Fey Wind+Illumination), debuff (Chain Strategem).

**Reiryuu** · 03-29-2019 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Bobsmiaw

If this is what SE will do, we will have 3 types of healer: HoT, Shield, and Buff.
This will leave an empty space for 1 more healer which can be a debuff type healer.

Hrrmm? What do you mean by a debuff healer? How does one heal via debuffs? I'd personally much rather see a healer that's a Damage -> Healing healer, ala the RIFT Chloromancer. Very fun class to play. Onmyouji (Oracle/Mystic) would be kinda fitting for that role since the Japanese literally translates to Yin-Yang Priest/User/etc. A non-primary caster would be kinda nice too. Maybe onmyouji could use throwing weapons/a gun of some sort or throw fuda (seals) that do phys damage for a change over a caster.

**number473** · 03-29-2019 12:05 AM

Focusing on regens or shields in particular misses out on what is really required by the classes. Each healing class needs a way to passively keep up the health of the party. This is essential. I think that is is also reasonable for each healer to have a way to prepare for upcoming damage and make it possible for party members to survive bigger incoming hits. I think that if we want to see greater balance, with the way that content is currently structured, we need all three healers to have well-rounded toolkits that allow them to complement each other.
Take a look at the dps classes. On the whole they accomplish the same thing (dealing damage) in different ways (the play style of the class). With healers we have not even been starting with the assumption that they will able to all do the same things.

On the topic of shields, I think that is good for all three healer classes to have access to them. At least, I think it's important for them to be able to prepare for a big hit ahead of time to minimize the amount of time spent in stressing low-health situations, or at least to provide some leeway for errors or tough situations. There are other options like % damage reduction that have a similar end result.
I think that there is plenty of space for them to differentiate how the healers' shields work. We already see this: WHM's shield is instant cast and has a cooldown which makes it great for soaking up general damage but harder to use for tankbusters if you want to maximize uptime. Nocturnal AST has the best on-demand shields with a small heal to go along with it, and it has the added benefit of being instant cast. SCH has a weaker single-target shield (outside of situations where you can fish for a crit) that falls in with the other skills in it's toolbox. Even back in ARR, WHM had stoneskin as a shield so there is certainly precedent for all healers to have ways to prevent incoming damage.
They have also said the we will be able to see shields as part of the ui in the future. I hope for two changes along with this: WHM's shields should change from a percentage of max hp to a potency so that their effectiveness isn't reduced when not using them on a tank. I think the main reason that skills that don't heal instead shield for a percentage of hp is because it is hard to tell exactly how much has been shielded without a heal number or hp bar indication.
The other thing I'd like to see is a cap on the amount of shields someone can have compared to how much hp they have. This would make it possible for all sorts of shields to stack, since it would never be able to go past this maximum and become overpowered.

In terms of passive healing, these are things that give the healer space to do other things like dps or move during mechanics while healing still continues to take place. The main ways that this takes place is through regens, but oGCD heals also contribute to this. Of course the king of passive healing is the fairy. The way that things work now, each healer should have a way to keep the hp of the party ticking up over time without having to constantly hard cast things like Cure or Benefic. This is a large part of what the problem with Nocturnal AST is - They have had to boost the heal percentage on the sect numerous times for this reason, since when the tank takes damage you often have to stop what you are doing to tend to his hp, having few options to keep his hp ticking up otherwise.

**Bobsmiaw** · 03-29-2019 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Hrrmm? What do you mean by a debuff healer? How does one heal via debuffs? I'd personally much rather see a healer that's a Damage -> Healing healer, ala the RIFT Chloromancer. Very fun class to play. Onmyouji (Oracle/Mystic) would be kinda fitting for that role since the Japanese literally translates to Yin-Yang Priest/User/etc. A non-primary caster would be kinda nice too. Maybe onmyouji could use throwing weapons/a gun of some sort or throw fuda (seals) that do phys damage for a change over a caster.

Well, my idea is their main focus will be debuff which the opposite of AST main focus on party buff.
I only imagine they can mitigate damage by debuffing the target such as reduce int, str, acc, crit, etc. by using different skill/ability.
They also able to boost party DPS by lowering target def, mdef, vulnerability, or like Chain Strategem from SCH.
This is just a rough idea from me.
Maybe other people have a different idea which is better than my idea.
I just want to share my idea here

**Coltvoyance** · 03-29-2019 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by number473

They have also said the we will be able to see shields as part of the ui in the future.

Do we have a source for this? It's the first time I'm hearing of it. If so it's a great idea and could allow Square to introduce the concept of "Overhealing". Essentially creating healing skills that fill a "second" health bar (formerly the TP bar in the party UI?). And perhaps it slowly diminishes over time along with taking damage. This could give healers greater focus on casting heals to maintain this "second" health bar, as it continuously drops, instead of just dealing damage. Especially if the next attack requires that level of extra health to survive, or a specific amount of "Overheal" (which may provide different benefits to regular HP).

The key would probably be making sure that it's a different set of skills that fill this gauge; or maybe that's the WHM niche. Lets say SCH Aldo can add Healing and Overhealing at the same time, but it fills the bars separately (meaning if both bars need to be full, SCH can only fill the HP bar, and some of the Overhealing bar cause shields can't stack) meanwhile AST can fill either the HP bar, or the overhealing bar (new Sect stance switching) But for WHM, it can fill both as if they were one continuous Healthbar; not requiring a stance switch to do so, and is able to fill it more quickly, giving more purpose to it's "power healer" status. (Theoretically it could turn Bene into not just an "oh shit" button, but also an "incoming tank buster" button). This extra power could actually give WHM more DPS time, while the other two have to spend more time casting GCD overheal spells to reach that level.

Though as I write this, it seems evident that this isn't so much making WHM more powerful... as just putting handicaps on the other two healers. It's basically like putting both SCH and AST in wheelchairs and forcing them to use the wheelchair ramp while leaving WHM as the only healer with legs that can still use the stairs..... But it's a thought. It would at least make WHM feel powerful XD.

**Arcari** · 03-29-2019 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Bobsmiaw

I have some ideas about this

Diurnal Sect:
Grant you the ability to draw offensive arcana to aid your allies.
Under this sect you can only Draw and Redraw Balance, Spear, or Arrow.
Using Minor Arcana will always grant you Lord of Crowns.
Cooldowns: 10 sec? or maybe longer?
Also possible to Sect swap during battle.

Nocturnal Sect:
Grant you the ability to draw defensive arcana to aid your allies.
Under this sect you can only Draw and Redraw Bole, Ewer, or Spire.
Using Minor Arcana will always grant you Lady of Crowns.
Cooldowns: 10 sec? or maybe longer?
Also possible to Sect swap during battle.

With this Sect effect on card, we can minimize the RNG of our cards.
Sleeve Draw will not affected by Sect. You can get all type of cards.
If you want to Redraw after Sleeve Draw, the Redraw is still affected by the Sect

Just dropping in to say this sounds really cool! I was advocating to just deleting AST's sects all together and tripling down on the card aspects, but this sounds a lot better!

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