Legit Raiding Remotely Possible?

[bgd624624]

I've played off and on for years but have never delved into the hardcore/min-max community in this game. The reason is that virtually every raiding FC uses 3rd party software that is against the ToS and thus cheating (from a purely objective point of view).

Now before people flame...

- I'm not "anti-parser." I've used them in other games.
- They make you better, I am not questioning their efficacy.
- I have no problem with people seeing my stats and judging me based on that.
- I understand SE can't "see" them anyway as they are client side.
- I am not worried about "getting caught" if I did use them.
- I know SE rarely enforces the ToS unless harassment is involved.
- Parsing is openly discussed on the forums, party finder, in FCs, everywhere.
- As an aside, the "Fight Club" meme is utterly absurd. Everyone talks about it.

I enjoy theory crafting, numbers, stats, rankings, challenging content and teamwork. I have the free time and drive to do raid nights like I would in any other MMO. In this game though, my understanding is that if you want to raid current savage/ex content in a coordinated group, you pretty much have to break the rules.

I don't want to break the rules.

So, if I follow the ToS and keep away from groups that don't, I'm pretty much unable to play this game at a more competitive, harder content type level. After some years of playing, I have multiple 70's, MSQ capped, all normal/hard duties done, side quests, complete. I'm bored. I want a challenge, I want to theory craft and be called out when I mess up. But I also want to play the game legit.

Is this even possible? Or is it pretty much, use prohibited software or don't do HC raids/trials. I'm not going to break the ToS despite vehemently disagreeing with it. I'll just move to a game where it is allowed.

Before the flames come in... I am not pointing a finger at the raiding community, I am not holier than thou, I am fine with getting my feelings hurt, it is a game. However, I am also not okay with people bringing up parsing in PUGs that I'm in. I'm not going to break the rules because that ruins the game for me. I'd sooner just not play.

Any thoughts on this? Any alternative?

[AxlStream]

All the statics I've ever been in use parsers. A fair ammount of PUGs use it as well. You will not find a decently competent group that doesn't.

[SendohJin]

you don't have to use it yourself but if you want to avoid everyone who uses it, that's impossible.

no alternative.

[UserHere]

Make your own No 3rd pt tools group? Idk this is such a weird set of restrictions to put on yourself. I feel like you are really over thinking the situation.

[AxlStream]

Also it's worth to mention, it's only breaking the rule if you use in game chat to talk about it as you would get punished for harassment.

[WaterShield]

I've played off and on for years but have never delved into the hardcore/min-max community in this game. The reason is that virtually every raiding FC uses 3rd party software that is against the ToS and thus cheating (from a purely objective point of view).

Now before people flame...

- I'm not "anti-parser." I've used them in other games.
- They make you better, I am not questioning their efficacy.
- I have no problem with people seeing my stats and judging me based on that.
- I understand SE can't "see" them anyway as they are client side.
- I am not worried about "getting caught" if I did use them.
- I know SE rarely enforces the ToS unless harassment is involved.
- Parsing is openly discussed on the forums, party finder, in FCs, everywhere.
- As an aside, the "Fight Club" meme is utterly absurd. Everyone talks about it.

I enjoy theory crafting, numbers, stats, rankings, challenging content and teamwork. I have the free time and drive to do raid nights like I would in any other MMO. In this game though, my understanding is that if you want to raid current savage/ex content in a coordinated group, you pretty much have to break the rules.

I don't want to break the rules.

So, if I follow the ToS and keep away from groups that don't, I'm pretty much unable to play this game at a more competitive, harder content type level. After some years of playing, I have multiple 70's, MSQ capped, all normal/hard duties done, side quests, complete. I'm bored. I want a challenge, I want to theory craft and be called out when I mess up. But I also want to play the game legit.

Is this even possible? Or is it pretty much, use prohibited software or don't do HC raids/trials. I'm not going to break the ToS despite vehemently disagreeing with it. I'll just move to a game where it is allowed.

Before the flames come in... I am not pointing a finger at the raiding community, I am not holier than thou, I am fine with getting my feelings hurt, it is a game. However, I am also not okay with people bringing up parsing in PUGs that I'm in. Whether it is blame or praise I will report. Not because I'm against parsing, but because I don't want to be associated with others who are not following the rules. I'm not going to break the rules because that ruins the game for me. I'd sooner just not play.

Any thoughts on this? Any alternative?

Not many people will want you around in a static due to your stance. Your only option really is to PUG and pretend that other party members aren't "cheating".

[UserHere]

Not many people will want you around in a static due to your stance. Your only option really is to PUG and pretend that other party members aren't "cheating".

What you don't know can't hurt you

[SilverObi]

Didn't you bring this up in a very similar thread like a week or two ago?

edit: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...cord-Bots-etc.

The discussion in your previous thread turned to parsing and whether or not its considered cheating and breaking ToS. You already got your answer that Yoshi-P is fine with them as long as you don't use them to harass other players. This feels like you still are on your kick that parser users should be removed from the game as its cheating in your subjective view.

[Alucard135]

The reason is that virtually every raiding FC uses 3rd party software that is against the ToS and thus cheating (from a purely objective point of view)

Yoshi P says it's not cheating. https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=363

And breaking TOS is not always cheating. If you insult someone, are you cheating then?

But answering your question, you can do savage content without dealing with a parser or any of that sort. But you won't know if you're doing good or bad or if you're holding your team down or not.

And if you're bored, you can become your own parser and read the battle log chatbox and do all the calculations as a parser would do.

[Nihility]

parsers don't really help you complete the fight if that's the cheating your talking about. Does help leaders figure out if they have someone that's not putting in any effort though. I've never used one personally but there will always be someone with it, even in random pug groups

Voice chat is a big deal to raiders, if your unwilling to use that your probably out of luck

and the actual cheating programs that tell you what to do and when and can even draw things on the screen... I feel like a lot more groups don't use that stuff than do