Revelations from Patch 4.56

[Fenral]

Something came to me, concerning the lack of voiceover in the CT quests: what if the voice calling to G'raha during the escape from the World of Darkness was actually Enigma? The visual effect is different (a flash of white instead of a dark blur), but the overall look is similar to the caliings from this past patch cycle. We were meant to assume it was Salina at the time, but it would really bring down the suspension of disbelief required in the final quest if G'raha got the entire "seal the Tower" gambit from some version of himself, rather than coming up with it on the spot after hearing from some random princess he'd never heard of before from memories that weren't even his to begin with.

[Lauront]

Before moving into 5.0, some thoughts...

Loose ends

There's a number of outstanding plot points, which remain "hanging":

1. How the Resonance came to be and what its real purpose is
   
2. Whether the Ascian Overlord in Solus's guise was possessing him before he sired Varis's father
   
3. What Solus has been doing all this time
   
4. Why Elidibus was so eager to test the vessel

Unfortunately, Banri Oda couldn't be drawn into answering questions about these quite yet, so I'll be indulging in quite a bit of speculation.

A slumbering Overlord's true colours...

Solus's role in all this is interesting to me. It's odd that an Ascian Overlord should even need to "rest" - they're tireless immortal beings, don't seem to take long to recover from whatever battles they get into and have a singular devotion to resurrecting Zodiark. Even assuming he managed to rejoin a world, why would he suddenly go to rest whilst the other Overlords were about their work on the Source? We know that they don't necessarily tell each other what they're doing at any given point and enjoy considerable autonomy, beyond not messing things up by causing floods that write off entire worlds for the Rejoining. It's a hard pill to swallow that he's just been lying in that coffin all this time. So what has he actually been up to?

Let's assume for a moment that he is possessing Varis (or even a cloned version of him, given his remarks about Allagan cloning techniques), and has been since the tent scene in the Ghimlyt Dark... going over his lines, although he clearly respects Elidibus, to a degree, the implication that he's a "worrier" might be a sign of frustration at him and his methods. He seemed none too pleased about being dragged back into this all, and highly critical of Lahabrea, but again, dragged in from what? As an Ascian, what else would he be doing with his time? Regardless, the lines at the end of 4.4 essentially involve him instructing Varis to do his duty, and reminding him he has no decision-making authority in the whole affair.

Following that, there is the scene in 4.5 regarding Seiryu's Wall - Varis is hesitant about resuming the production of the Black Rose but wishes to do so to preserve Garlean lives; Solus, meanwhile, is excited about the possibilities it has in a place where the deluge of Light has worked on the local aether, suggesting this will enhance whatever effects it has if, for instance, the flood were farther ahead than on the Source, e.g. on the First, which is no doubt where he will be headed. Then comes the speech in the tent scene; for the first half, Varis mostly deflects the Alliance leaders' barbs, and the portrayal is consistent with his usual self. Then come the flickering lights in the second half, with the black moths drawn to them, which is a classical signifier of possession. The speech he gives is at odds with wanting to preserve Garlemald, because he admits that his new plan would involve Garlemald's erasure, and he speaks of taking things back to how they were at the beginning, before the races of man split... (bearing in mind Solus had also alluded earlier to restoring mankind to its rightful state in his earlier chat with Varis.) This is all with the aim of eventually hoping to render the Ascians a non-threat... but essentially by delivering exactly the fate they intend to bring about, anyway. The dramatic flare was also at odds with Varis, who but a few cutscenes before, Solus had described as being unable to mask his feelings well.

Now, if you re-cast this as Solus possessing Varis, it has some interesting implications. One, he clearly likes to parrot some of his own lines through Varis. Two, perhaps that mindset is not at all Varis's - pretend or otherwise - but Solus's. Better yet, perhaps he is frustrated at the progress the Ascians are making on the Source and Elidibus's fairly (to him, overly?) cautious leadership, and has a masterplan to take Elidibus out of his role and assume the part of Emissary for himself. A more radical agenda, yet, could be to try take over the very role of the Crystal of Darkness and unshackle himself from servitude to it, but it's not clear to me that he's that ambitious or whether it's even feasible, although we know there's means by which such a crystal could be created anew. Three, when he speaks of this becoming a family enterprise, perhaps he is not just joking and means to use Varis to come and go as he pleases within the Empire. I think edging Elidibus out of the scene seems to be a pretty reasonable possibility as to where Solus could be taking this. In either event, he needs the Rejoining to proceed apace, and tilting the First more towards the Dark through indiscriminate slaughter via the Black Rose could be his preferred means to do so.

Like (great grand)father, like (great grand)son...

In turn, that brings Zenos back into the picture. I've been rather dismissive of the prospect of whether being sired by an Ascian would have any effect on the resulting offspring, and this all ties into an as yet unknown chronology of events, but reflecting on that, it's not clear to me why it must be so that the offspring would not be affected in some way. Life on Hydaelyn is both corporeal and aethereal in nature. Ascian possession appears to erase the host for the most part and forms a bond with the body whilst the Ascian is possessing them. So what if this has in fact altered the Galvus bloodline? It may not express itself in Varis or his father, because they have the regular Garlean inability to manipulate aether, but Zenos's potential has been unlocked through the Resonance. It's not clear to me whether an Ascian - Solus included - guided this project, but it most likely took advantage of Allagan aetherochemistry to manipulate the Pureblood genome so as to remove any inhibitors it has to utilising magic.

That could also lead into what is so special about him as a host - if the above is true, he'd be part Overlord by nature, with the Resonance unlocking that power and giving him hold of something like the very potent Echo an Ascian Overlord would possess; he'd be a synthetically produced Overlord/Pureblood hybrid. So, rather than Aulus just implanting a particularly powerful imitation of the Echo in Zenos (Fordola's version is nothing like Zenos's, for instance), he could instead have been harnessing his latent potential. This would make him an excellent counterpart to the WoL.

Assuming these two plot elements both hold true, I wonder whether they could interact, and we could see Solus edging out Elidibus (I can't help but wonder if they've decided to move some of his intended role to Solus, due to Solus's popularity - Elidibus's has waned a lot since he faded into relative obscurity following ARR), assisting Zenos in reclaiming his body and teaming up with him to sow as much chaos as feasible on the Source and First. Zenos would serve as a useful means to Solus to distract you - he wouldn't even need to kill you whilst he busied about his work, but just unleash this obsessive frenemy of yours onto you, in order to distract and slow you down. I don't see Zenos taking out Varis as a good thing for the Empire (as a nation, not Ascian tool of chaos), as Varis is at least mentally stable and interested in the nation's and its people's continued existence, whereas Zenos essentially oppressed two regions with crushing brutality, having no regard for any life... on a whim, and allegedly has had no change of heart or desire for penitence. However, that's assuming Varis will be around to dispose of, and is not possessed by Solus. If Zenos were to cause such chaos, given Solus's own agenda and style, he might even embrace it.

I also like the comedic value of Solus taking some joy in repeating Varis's usual lines and severe tone.

Granted, they could just do whatever feels "cool" in the moment (rule of cool, and all that), and Varis may not be possessed and simply managing the situation as best he can, but I think this would make for a pretty awesome plotline/twist. I don't consider it plausible that Varis will unleash the Black Rose on the Empire, nor do I think he relishes in using it on the Alliance - his words pointed to a strong reluctance and that it was being done out of perceived necessity to limit Garlean casualties. The alternative is he may plan to use it on the Ascians, but that'll be futile since they'll just jump bodies without the right tools at hand. In turn, if it is Solus, he could just want to ensure Elidibus doesn't get in his way, but if he really thinks he's better at the job than Elidibus would be, I could see a takeover bid regardless.

If all they intend for Zenos is to be a wrecking ball in the Empire, I'd say meh. Waste of potential uses they could put him to.

Even more dangling loose ends...

On a side note, I also wonder what they're planning to do with Construct 7. Its ability to open portals to the very centre of the planet was interesting - the implication being that this could access the Aethereal Sea? - but I have a feeling that the way this raid content could be used is enabling Garlean reinforcements to circumvent Seiryu's Wall, increasing the pressure on Dalmasca and reinforcing Noah von Gabranth's IVth Legion. Yoshi P had alluded to Orbonne tying into some aspect of understanding 4.5, but as yet, there's nothing any of it clearly tied to that I could see. Again, it does reinforce the possibility suggested by many here that there was some re-writing that went on as the patch progressed, and we all know they were severely pressed for time, so mayhap this will resurface at a later point, tying in either to the two Crystals, or Dalmasca... or maybe something else.

[JeanneOrnitier]

MSQ thoughts I suppose.

I'm not surprised at the disappointment there seems to be in this thread about it. I've generally not been a fan of Stormblood's MSQ as a whole, so it having an unsatisfying ending is almost fitting. I was hoping/expecting for them to wrap up Elezen!Zenos though, if only because I think Zenos is a super boring character so I want to know what purpose they think bringing him back could have served.

...I don't mean to sound negative I just really haven't enjoyed Stormblood's MSQ at all.

I'm very excited to see where Shadowbringers takes us, but maybe there should have been a stinger at the end of the Scions all waking up in Nordrant or something. Something to tie it together better. The ARR->HW and HW->SB transitions were all very fluid, but this one wasn't.

[Belhi]

Before moving into 5.0, some thoughts...

Loose ends

There's a number of outstanding plot points, which remain "hanging":

1. How the Resonance came to be and what its real purpose is
   
2. Whether the Ascian Overlord in Solus's guise was possessing him before he sired Varis's father
   
3. What Solus has been doing all this time
   
4. Why Elidibus was so eager to test the vessel

Well I feel we have something of an answer already to some of these:

1. The Resonant are an attempt by the Garleans to overcome their inherent inability to channel Aether, which being a race that currently thinks themselves better than everyone else is a sore point. This evolved into effectively creating an artificial Echo by basically forcing the Anima from many souls into a single host. This is the basis for both Fordola and Zeno's resonant 'echo'. It is basically an artificial echo the Garleans managed to develop while researching how to overcome their inability to channel Aether. I suspect the reason we don't see a lot more is that it requires a lot of souls to make and sounds like it often kills the host. Zenos was pleased but surprised Fordola survived the process.

2. I think it is all but certain that from the start of his rise to power, Solas was an Ascian. They have pretty much outright stated he built the empire as a tool. Considering Solas was pretty young when it started it seems likely he sired the Garlean Imperial line.

3. We know that when their bodies die the Ascians can go to a place between worlds. It could be, having done his part, he handed the work over to Lahabrea. Alternatively he could have taken up a role in one of the other shards. We honestly don't know a great deal about the Ascians. However, effectively they seem to be souls with a powerful echo so maybe they can fatigue. After all we know they aren't without limit because we have beaten them down before and even destroyed several of those souls. It might be that every thousand years or so they take a rest to recharge the Aether in their shadow realm.

4. Its a powerful new toy. He wanted to take it for a spin. More importantly we are approaching a flood so naturally he wants to curtail that by putting us down. The balance actually might hint at us why the Ascians tend to allow Astral Eras to run for a while. After a Calamity they probably need to allow the Balance to correct back before having another huge disaster.

On the dangling threads:

I suspect that many of these threads will be left dangling till late in the patch cycle or even till next expansion. The only tie in to Orbonne I can think of is the Dalmascan Fusalier who was at the Eastern Alliance meeting and pretty much said that the Dalmascans still need to get organised and unified before they can be proper members of the Eastern Alliance. There is also the fact that it does tie into old MSQ as it establishes there is very likely a link between the High Seraph and the Ultima spell we ran into at the end of ARR, which suggests to me that the Heart of Sobek was a chunk of Auracite.

MSQ thoughts I suppose.

I'm not surprised at the disappointment there seems to be in this thread about it. I've generally not been a fan of Stormblood's MSQ as a whole, so it having an unsatisfying ending is almost fitting. I was hoping/expecting for them to wrap up Elezen!Zenos though, if only because I think Zenos is a super boring character so I want to know what purpose they think bringing him back could have served.

...I don't mean to sound negative I just really haven't enjoyed Stormblood's MSQ at all.

I'm very excited to see where Shadowbringers takes us, but maybe there should have been a stinger at the end of the Scions all waking up in Nordrant or something. Something to tie it together better. The ARR->HW and HW->SB transitions were all very fluid, but this one wasn't.

I don't think it helped that a lot of the reveals happened after Fanfest when things like us going to the First were already known. It would have been a much bigger twist if we didn't already literally know that.

I wouldn't say it isn't fluid per say because frankly we haven't seen the Shadowbringers half. There is a limit to what they can do at this point as we are still on the source. The need to go to the first isn't without context however. Finding a way to beat the Ascians while avoid a Flood of Light has been a problem we have had no solution too since we found out it was a problem from Albert in 3.4.

As for Zenos, I am afraid if you don't like him much I have a bad feeling that after Shadowbringers will bother you. My hunch is he is going to become a much greater antagonist in the expansion after Shadowbringers which is when I suspect we will deal with Zenos properly. I think it is very likely he will end up on his father's throne.

[Lauront]

Thanks for the response - I think we have some inklings on where those threads are going, but there's still ambiguities...

What I am getting at with the Resonance is whether it was just a discovery by Aulus, or whether there was a "guiding hand" involved. I'm aware of the official lore behind it, hence my reference to aetherochemistry being the basis for it given what it essentially accomplished, which was also manipulation of the Garlean genome, but we're also aware of the Ascians doing their bit to contribute to the advance of knowledge, e.g. by teaching the Allagans how to bind Primals. Where it suits them, they'll share such knowledge - and implanting an artificial Echo seems like the sort of thing they could have taught the Garleans to ensure they don't fall too far behind in serving as their means to counterbalance the spread of Light on the world. It doesn't make too great a difference really; I was just wondering whether an Ascian, like Solus, was planning something with it all along. Soul transfer is something very much within their domain of expertise, after all. And yes, it was a pretty experimental technology, with many failed experiments in its wake.

On 2, I agree that that's the probable answer to the question. The gaps in that are around how old he'd have been when he had his children but it would in all likelihood be after he became possessed. I find this point very intriguing because I really want to know now whether this has affected the progeny in the way I outlined in my post and whether the Resonance was the key to unlocking this potential.

On 3, I mean we know that through very taxing means they can be permanently destroyed, but that aside, they just get right back up and battle after regular defeats, with the only down time being to find a new host if need be. Recharging the aether sounds plausible. At the same time, they operate on relatively large time horizons, so who knows... maybe they need a bit of time to kick back and chillax, and do things like research new ways of bringing about Calamities. No doubt he was alluding to an expectation that things were set in motion for their plans to proceed apace, until Lahabrea's defeat resulted in the balance being tilted too far towards the Light. So now the issue is not just restoring the First but also the Source, meaning it's not just a case of Elidibus fixing matters on the First, but both being required to restore the balance across both worlds, drawing him away from whatever else he was doing. Rest after all can just be leisure time. Still, that leaves me to wonder what he's been up to in that time. His role, up until now, has been unknown to us, besides his time as Emperor Solus, and that ended when Varis took over.

On 4, what I was trying to convey was that the Ascians seldom seem to care at all about their host's latent abilities, at all. They simply mould and enhance them as they see fit, like Nabriales's supernatural strength. My suspicion is that a host who possesses the Echo (or, equivalently, the Resonance) might have particularly special value to them, and this is because there's probably more interaction between the soul and body I had previously given credit for; particularly since the game often ties things like job abilities to being vestigial within the soul (acting as the mind), which was my takeaway from things like soulstones. Yet Elidibus is drawing on Zenos's knowledge of sword arts merely through possessing the body. I think it's an interesting take away that they may be able to do more with a host whose latent potential is enhanced e.g. by possessing the Echo/Resonance - in Zenos's case perhaps a very special kind of it.

Lastly, on the Orbonne thing, yeah that may be it. I'm thinking that they'll just leave the whole Construct 7 thing until they're ready to put Gabranth to greater use, which may be as far away as 6.0. Could also be that the "surprises" Yoshi was discussing in 4.5 were actually those to be found within Orbonne.

As such, the majority of these things remain unresolved and developing plot points... we have some idea of what's going on but still not the full picture.

As for Zenos, I am afraid if you don't like him much I have a bad feeling that after Shadowbringers will bother you. My hunch is he is going to become a much greater antagonist in the expansion after Shadowbringers which is when I suspect we will deal with Zenos properly. I think it is very likely he will end up on his father's throne.

Yeah, I'm thinking a use they could put him to in that case is have him be the "capstone" on the Source Varis was intended to be, and Solus the "anchor in the shard" on the First. So a "family enterprise" after all, just with some of the figures rearranged. As far as Solus is concerned, that'd be conducive to spreading chaos on both worlds, which is his primary aim, as opposed to stability in the Empire. So, a win-win.

[JeanneOrnitier]

I don't think it helped that a lot of the reveals happened after Fanfest when things like us going to the First were already known. It would have been a much bigger twist if we didn't already literally know that.

I wouldn't say it isn't fluid per say because frankly we haven't seen the Shadowbringers half. There is a limit to what they can do at this point as we are still on the source. The need to go to the first isn't without context however. Finding a way to beat the Ascians while avoid a Flood of Light has been a problem we have had no solution too since we found out it was a problem from Albert in 3.4.

As for Zenos, I am afraid if you don't like him much I have a bad feeling that after Shadowbringers will bother you. My hunch is he is going to become a much greater antagonist in the expansion after Shadowbringers which is when I suspect we will deal with Zenos properly. I think it is very likely he will end up on his father's throne.

More MSQ talk.

That's absolutely the case regarding the timing of this patch. If 4.5 had come all at once instead of being divided, and so we didn't know what we know now, the reveal of Crystal Tower at the end would have been a huge bomb drop moment.

It's true we haven't seen the Shadowbringers intro yet, but I'm thinking about how ARR ended with us in Coerthas and a goal of going to Ishgard, and HW ended with the Shinry and Baelsar's Wall stuff and knowing full well war was around the corner. Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread, but right now we're kind of just left hanging with a "what's next?" and it feels weird compared to the last two expansion endings. It's not necessarily a bad spot to leave us at, but in comparison to the last two it's just out of place. I don't hate it or anything.

Regarding Zenos, I'm also prepared for basically what you said. The thing is I just don't think he's very compelling. Maybe they can turn that around for me, but right now all I see is two-dimensional blood knight. "I love fighting, the thrill of the hunt" is basically the only aspect of his personality. And as things stand right now, with EleZenos having done nothing since his introduction, it feels really unnecessary to have him be revived at all.

[Daralii]

More MSQ talk.

That's absolutely the case regarding the timing of this patch. If 4.5 had come all at once instead of being divided, and so we didn't know what we know now, the reveal of Crystal Tower at the end would have been a huge bomb drop moment.

It's true we haven't seen the Shadowbringers intro yet, but I'm thinking about how ARR ended with us in Coerthas and a goal of going to Ishgard, and HW ended with the Shinry and Baelsar's Wall stuff and knowing full well war was around the corner. Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread, but right now we're kind of just left hanging with a "what's next?" and it feels weird compared to the last two expansion endings. It's not necessarily a bad spot to leave us at, but in comparison to the last two it's just out of place. I don't hate it or anything.

Regarding Zenos, I'm also prepared for basically what you said. The thing is I just don't think he's very compelling. Maybe they can turn that around for me, but right now all I see is two-dimensional blood knight. "I love fighting, the thrill of the hunt" is basically the only aspect of his personality. And as things stand right now, with EleZenos having done nothing since his introduction, it feels really unnecessary to have him be revived at all.

To be fair, ARR ended with us in Coerthas ready to head to Ishgard for several months after becoming a wanted criminal across Eorzea, with Kan-E and Merlwyb needing to cover for us. It was kind of an awkward transition period.

[Kalise]

To be fair, ARR ended with us in Coerthas ready to head to Ishgard for several months after becoming a wanted criminal across Eorzea, with Kan-E and Merlwyb needing to cover for us. It was kind of an awkward transition period.

To be honest, being a wanted criminal, that very few people could recognize was an amusing concept.

Like, imagine the wanted posters:

Wanted: Warrior of Light
Race: Unknown
Appearance: Unknown
Profession: Unknown
Personality traits: Likes to help people for no personal gain.

[Cybylt]

More MSQ talk.

Regarding Zenos, I'm also prepared for basically what you said. The thing is I just don't think he's very compelling. Maybe they can turn that around for me, but right now all I see is two-dimensional blood knight. "I love fighting, the thrill of the hunt" is basically the only aspect of his personality. And as things stand right now, with EleZenos having done nothing since his introduction, it feels really unnecessary to have him be revived at all.

I've always found him kind of terrifying in a more metatextual sense in that his motivations and style is basically that he's a bored player character and that's probably made it more interesting to me than any in-universe arc.

[Cilia]

I've always found [Zenos] kind of terrifying in a more metatextual sense in that his motivations and style is basically that he's a bored player character and that's probably made it more interesting to me than any in-universe arc.

That tends to go over a lot of peoples' heads...