Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.56

Originally Posted by KDSilver

I don't know if I may ask this here, but, what is from the game scenario point of view "Light" and "Darkness" ?
What does this mean to "spread Light" or "spread Darkness" ?

Doing "good" things ? Saving people ? = Light ?
Spreading darkness means making them suffer ?

I'm really confused about their definition.

We still don't have a clear definition, though it is known that killing off Ascians is one way to cause a harmful shift in the balance, which implies they're somehow key in maintaining the order.

It would likely be a very bad idea to destroy Elidibus if the chance ever presented itself and considering that he now seems convinced getting rid of us is the best way to restore the balance, that's likely going to become an issue in ShB.

The only thing that seems certain is that things are going to become a big mess when Varis, Elidibus, and Solus all seem to have different ideas about what needs to change in the world.

Oh.. just... oh boy.

MSQ:

Considering the strength of the endings for 2.56 and 3.56 I was expecting a lot from 4.57, it's true. And I was left sorely wanting.

Cid swoops in again; consistent enough that you could set your watch by him, I reckon. I know, I know, he always gets tied up in various sidestories post MSQ but it's so predictable for him now! Have him show up later in the expansion, I guess. Make him do some real work rather than gallivanting!

The fights with Zenos, I had mixed emotions about. It was nice to feel that much more powerful being the Warrior of Light versus Hien. A cute way to show the power disparity, I guess; the Warrior of Light is that much stronger than three great warriors. Something something Echo/Blessing of Light. It was also cute that Zenos used the same magicks as Nabriales (Triple/Spark), showing us again that Ascians do have some modicum of what's commonly "time magick."

Lyse being the one to break Zenos' helmet is also... really poetic, I think. If you trace all of Yda in 1.0, you find one cutscene (other than Seventh Umbral Era storyline) where you interact with Lyse. Being Futures Perfect, the final CGI CS of 1.0, etc. etc. we all know it, the Scions face off versus Gaius and he casually blocks all their blows except!! except! Yda gets a hit. It's minor, but was always something that stuck with me. When Lyse revealed herself and the timeline straightened, it was about the only thing I latched on to, so I like to imagine it's a nod to that. It probably isn't.

Elidibus recognizing we're being Called. Interesting, nice, okay, cool. He can feel our soul being called somewhere else. He's more gifted in the Echo (allegedly), so him being able to pinpoint that is good. He attempted to seize the opportunity to kill us, also good. We wake up in bed, okay. Estinien saved us... what? I'm sorry?? If Cid can come back regardless of your progress in Omega, then Estinien should be able to come back regardless of your progress in Dragoon, I get it. It's just... if we hadn't been getting "MEANWHILE AT THE LEGION OF DOOM" cutscenes this entire expansion, I'd understand. We don't get to see what we couldn't. But we do. All the time. Let us see Estinien being cool! Show me how he manages to fend off Zenos to save us! That's a BIG thing--we just saw the combined power of Lyse, Hien and Yugiri was necessary for Elidizenos to be slowed. Missed opportunity--Elidizenos toyed with Hien and his retinue waiting for the Bringer of Light to show. We show up, get incapacitated, and while moving in for the kill Elidizenos is stopped. He should've brought even more to bear against Estinien than the previous three. We're poorer for not having seen the battle tbh.

I supposed reconnecting with Aymeric and Edmont is necessary for the rebuilding of Ishgard. Eh, whatever, I like Ishgard.

The meeting with the Enigmatic Voice was ... well I don't know what I expected but I was still disappointed. I guess he pulled us into the Aetherial Sea? And if anyone is still denying it's G'raha after seeing that model then I want whatever fuels their denial directly injected into my veins. We didn't learn why we're needed on the First. We don't know what's changed. We don't know why G'raha is the dude who feels so strongly about this that's willing to risk the Scions' lives for it. Did Minfilia and Hydaelyn screw up THAT badly? Is there another force at work (probably, but it'd be neat to get a hint!)?

I guess we get another tacit confirmation that lower ranking members of the military don't see legatus without their helm/masks. Still don't know how Eula pulled it off for so long when she'd doubtless have to work with Gaius in Eorzea in the lead up to the Calamity.

Just, what, ugh? All this build up and it just deflates into nothing. As president of the Tataru hater club, I'd wish she'd been the real victim of the Red Banquet by this point. Why the hell is she crafting the Warrior of Light some weird Hot Topic Halloween Costume? What possible explanation can she have for making that in game? We, the player, know we're going to need to "take up the power of Darkness to save the world!" or whatever, but why is she making us a grim reaper knock off outfit? How do we decide to just leave Garlemald alone? Why aren't we pressing our advantage?

Confirmation that Ascians move independently and without informing the rest of their crew is good, I guess. It sort of had to be that way--or else how could Mitron and Igeyorhm bungle their shards so much. Solus scheming without Elidibus will be interesting if nothing else. It was also striking to see how Elidibus and Varis interacted and I felt it might've lent credence to the idea it wasn't Varis' true ideals on display at the meeting with the Eorzean Alliance. Err.. that he so deeply drank the Ascian kool-aid anyways.

Unsure what the stinger of crazy Varis face was meant to convey. Is it him slowly falling into madness or him giving into depravity and using the Black Rose? I can't actually bring myself to care considering all we know of Shadowbringers is that we're going to the First.

I've yet to suss out all the changed small-talk, but Arenvald mentions being worried you fell in the field of battle, J'moldva bemoans having to work with the Butcher, and V'mah is worried all about primals all the time. Nothing new in the Waking Sands... Matoya still has her same dialogue from earlier 4.5 in which she tells us not to worry about Shtola. Rammbroes mentions he's now looking for the beacon at the Scions' behest and Unukalhai has this:

...I am told that soon it will be your turn to travel across the rift.
And unlike the energies which ravaged my home, the star which beckons you is filled with blinding incandescence. Yet a flood of Light will invite destruction as surely as a maelstrom of Darkness.
I wonder, then, how a champion sworn to the Light could serve to redress this imbalance. What strange destiny calls you to this battle...?

Which makes me question where he got this information from? Is he still talking to his former master Elidibus?

Also I guess we're supposed to believe the real Zenos has figured out how to swap bodies with the Resonant and was going to take that Centurion's corpse as his next vessel and return to Garlemald. To what end? I guess to set himself up to meet the Bringer of Light again on the field of battle. Yet... it's unsatisfying. Zenos' original end in 4.0 felt like a much better closed loop--this one feels sort of ridiculous. I can't imagine going from being content to commit suicide to being okay with immortality. He has to imagine, eventually, he will continue to fight and lose against us and die for real whenever we get more white auracite, or succeed in killing us and never have the thrill of a real Hunt again. Like what's the endgame? To fight, to live, to embrace violence for its own sake? But he's already done that! He did that and he decided it was over! He came back against his will (I assume) and he's just accepting it!

Beast Tribe Quests:

I wasn't expecting anything amazing, and I got mild amusement. I'm tired of the same villain three times over though...he's just, ugh, boring. I actually liked most of the rest of the quest, because going in after the Namazu I knew it'd be frivolous fun. Miqo'te being so rare in Kugane that a random passerby wouldn't even know their name was weird to me.

Hildibrand:

Speaking of frivolous fun, I've been content to leave Hildibrand in his canon-defying bubble for some time, and getting the name of an influential Hannish business concern was enough to sate my thirst for knowledge. Hells, I even enjoyed the explanation of how Gilgamesh became Yojimbo! But... the ending... I know Hildibrand has to end up in every expansion and it's usually by flying off into the distance as is tradition since 1.2X even but... having Gilgamesh drag him into a portal "beyond the rift that lies between to wondrous worlds yet unseen" just ... Listen, I don't want to open this can of worms. Is Gilgamesh the same Gilgamesh in every iteration of Final Fantasy? Is the void the Void in every iteration? These are questions I don't want to think about ever, and I was really fine with leaving it ambiguous in XIV's Gilgamesh but I'm just BLEH. If he can just drag Hildibrand to the First willy-nilly, the Hildibubble canon is getting too expansive for me, okay?

Originally Posted by Theodric

Main Scenario Quests:

So, Lauront and I have been discussing the possibility that Varis is being possessed by Solus at specific points to help sow chaos within Garlemald. It was a theory we presented during the previous batch of MSQ's, though we're a little more confident in its potential now.

Zenos walking towards the slain Garlean soldier suggests to me that he's going to use the Resonance to possess a different body in order to try and reclaim his real form from Elidibus. I assume that there's a good chance that he succeeds, especially with him showing up in Dissidia NT as a playable character.

As for Elidibus, I was expecting a bit more from him. That Hien, Lyse and Yuguri are able to fend him off long enough for our character to arrive just felt far too convenient for my liking. Then, in addition, Estinien randomly shows up out of nowhere. Nobody beyond a few nameless soldiers are slain.

I suppose if anything bad does happen it'll be saved for early on in the 5.0 MSQ's - much like how 4.0 had the attack upon Rhalgr's Reach during the first batch of quests.

On that...

I don't think he'll reclaim the body until he is driven out by someone else for him, as it is clear that not even the WoL was able to stop Elidibus at this point, and that is with your Blessing, which he lacks. It remains a possibility that Elidibus will return the body to him if they come to a mutual understanding, given their shared aim of seeing the WoL dead, albeit for different reasons.

I also suspect Elidibus tried to kill the WoL when he was being called due to suspecting that this may be Hydaelyn, so better to cut it short, fast. Especially after what happened to Lahabrea in the Praetorium. Although the scenes were a bit lacklustre, as these duty fights tend to be, he was toying with Hien etc., as they were never his true quarry. But it was anti-climactic, not so much due to the fight itself, which was always going to be limited by what sole duty fights can add, but by how limited our interaction was with him. I was also sorely disappointed to see that G'raha (or at least the guy who looks like him) was pretty much the mysterious voice, which I had feared would turn out to be the case. I am hoping they leave some meaningful interaction with Zodiark for later on, because taking on the role of WoD without that will feel very incomplete. Estinien just acting as the deus ex machina felt forced - why not just have "G'raha" do a bit more than commune with you, and pull away your soul, only for it to be reunited with your corpse later on? It's not like the Source is close to an imbalance of darkness, anyway. Regardless, there may be more to "Gr'aha" than meets the eye, but we won't find out till 5.0 I imagine.

The true nature of the callings, in turn, raises questions as to how and why it's affected the other Scions as it has. Mayhap he did pull their souls away?

The most interesting part about that fight was how Elidibus was amalgamating some of the usual Overlord powers, as well as Zenos's, and he kept referring to the potential of the host. I wonder, then, if the Resonance enhanced both Zenos's soul and body in some manner that an Ascian Overlord would find conducive to their ends. We've not seen them absorb a host's powers like that before. Although it's possible that a host's memories do reside in their body to some extent, I had always though this was the domain of the soul. Maybe there is a degree of two-way interaction, whereby the body also retains some of the original soul's memories? He clearly put a lot of weight on Zenos's body's potential.

As for actual Zenos? He still calls you his enemy, his friend, but the guy is clearly more than a little nuts, so he wants you to grow stronger so he can presumably challenge you again.

On Solus, the reason I think possession is plausible is because he has a love for theatre and chaos. The production of the Black Rose has only begun now, so he's yet to go off to the First, if that's his plan, and Varis was quipping with lines Solus fed him earlier on. I think that's exactly the sort of irony Solus enjoys. During the tent scene, I had said that the second part was very uncharacteristic of Varis, who Solus even remarks doesn't do well to hide his true feelings. In that scene, there were also classic possession hints, like the flickering lights, with black moths drawn to them. That raises the question of how he could hide from another Overlord, but mayhap it's possible much like they can hide their true identity from you, in turn setting up the scene for him to go behind Elidibus's back in whatever it is he's planning, even setting the scene for a subsequent betrayal; who'd suspect a fellow Overlord, after all, even if some of them don't like each other? Solus has always spoken of Elidibus in positive terms, even though he finds him a bit boring. That could also serve later as an opening for Zenos reclaiming his body and perhaps working with Solus instead. Can't wait to see how it all plays out, when they have more room to elaborate on things, come 5.0.

Since 10 words are law
MSQ:

This felt the weakest story going into another expansion, the Zenos instance was fun but the whole drag us out and get saved by Estinien off screen irked me i feel that should've been shown or had the player control Estinien to force Zenos away.

Elidibus the emissary of Zodiark has no idea what Solus is planning so either he blindly trusts Solus with the 1st shard problem or he is acting more foolish now than he has ever been must be the body. Also if that truly is the extent of Elidibus's power then we are indeed getting quite powerful, Zenos you probably do not want to fight us as you might be a fly when we get back

Varis has gone loco for his ambition creepy face says all us going to the 1st is going to mess with the source's political state horribly, unfortunately this is also where all tension and suspense for the expansion is for me atm what is going to happen while we are away not for where we are going.

The very build up for ShB is near non existent i think we should've had a try at going to the 1st get a glimpse of Thancred/Y'shtola/Urianger fighting a sin eater and failed to actually travel there, thereby requesting Cid and the students to try to find a way to add more power so we can travel they needed time so we give it. It would give us as a character more drive to find our friends than currently and make us think about us not continuing the war.

Right now i feel as a character we should stay on the Source and finish the war the Enigmatic voice said win or lose lies a calamity, well buckaroo i don't see how the Alliance winning the war brings a calamity but i sure see how Garlemald might cough Black Rose cough. So i think i should stay and stop them since calamity means a shard is rejoined and it's inhabitants die feels more important since while my friends are coma tose they don't appear to be in any danger to my knowledge.

Hildabrand:

Love the goofiness of Greg and it does seem like Hildy will be joining us on the 1st may get another Greg trial as well though feels weird we bringing a Raz-at-Hahn bad guy with us who is knowledgable about Alchemical substances wonder how he will fit in maybe the new straight man

Beast Tribe:

Nice to know Miqo'te are exceedingly rare in the far east so much so the locals don't even know their racial name, Feels weird seeing the allied beast tribe villian met a 'supposed' death at the hands of a shark of all things, but there was no way they could bring him into the 1st shards's allied beast tribe quests, nice to see full closure of the Kugane Castle dungeon storyline

Originally Posted by Crushnight

Since 10 words are law
MSQ:

This felt the weakest story going into another expansion, the Zenos instance was fun but the whole drag us out and get saved by Estinien off screen irked me i feel that should've been shown or had the player control Estinien to force Zenos away.

Elidibus the emissary of Zodiark has no idea what Solus is planning so either he blindly trusts Solus with the 1st shard problem or he is acting more foolish now than he has ever been must be the body. Also if that truly is the extent of Elidibus's power then we are indeed getting quite powerful, Zenos you probably do not want to fight us as you might be a fly when we get back

Varis has gone loco for his ambition creepy face says all us going to the 1st is going to mess with the source's political state horribly, unfortunately this is also where all tension and suspense for the expansion is for me atm what is going to happen while we are away not for where we are going.


The very build up for ShB is near non existent i think we should've had a try at going to the 1st get a glimpse of Thancred/Y'shtola/Urianger fighting a sin eater and failed to actually travel there, thereby requesting Cid and the students to try to find a way to add more power so we can travel they needed time so we give it. It would give us as a character more drive to find our friends than currently and make us think about us not continuing the war.

Right now i feel as a character we should stay on the Source and finish the war the Enigmatic voice said win or lose lies a calamity, well buckaroo i don't see how the Alliance winning the war brings a calamity but i sure see how Garlemald might cough Black Rose cough. So i think i should stay and stop them since calamity means a shard is rejoined and it's inhabitants die feels more important since while my friends are coma tose they don't appear to be in any danger to my knowledge.

In accord with the law...

Just bear in mind that the fact that this is a duty finder sole fight does somewhat limit how much they can do with it. That is always the issue with inferring too much from combat mechanics. The fact that Elidibus just pulled himself back up, whilst having severely weakened the WoL, isn't hinting to me that he's shown the full extent of his power, although he concedes that you are a powerful WoL and that Hydaelyn chose well. He used a small subset of the abilities the Overlords typically possess, and some of Zenos's, which I found interesting. He then just left when you were whisked away. It does seem like original Zenos is setting himself up for a rather wild ride, though. The bigger issue I had with Elidibus's portrayal is that Solus is just playing him for a fool, especially if the Emperor in that scene was Solus. Elidibus is no idiot. He's also not lost his composure or level headedness, and yet Solus does appear to be working some manner of deceit upon him.

Regarding Solus, there were prior cutscenes in 4.5 implying that he may be headed to the Source to wreak some havoc with the Black Rose, the production of which has only now begun. To me it looks like Solus has taken hold of Varis and is intent on causing as much chaos as he can on both worlds. I am also anticipating that he will betray Elidibus

Originally Posted by Lauront

In accord with the law...

Just bear in mind that the fact that this is a duty finder sole fight does somewhat limit how much they can do with it. That is always the issue with inferring too much from combat mechanics. The fact that Elidibus just pulled himself back up, whilst having severely weakened the WoL, isn't hinting to me that he's shown the full extent of his power, although he concedes that you are a powerful WoL and that Hydaelyn chose well. He used a small subset of the abilities the Overlords typically possess, and some of Zenos's, which I found interesting. It does seem like original Zenos is setting himself up for a rather wild ride, though. The bigger issue I had with Elidibus's portrayal is that Solus is just playing him for a fool, especially if the Emperor in that scene was Solus. Elidibus is no idiot. He's also not lost his composure or level headedness, and yet Solus does appear to be working some manner of deceit upon him.

Regarding Solus, there were prior cutscenes in 4.5 implying that he may be headed to the Source to wreak some havoc with the Black Rose, the production of which has only now begun. To me it looks like Solus has taken hold of Varis and is intent on causing as much chaos as he can on both worlds. I am also anticipating that he will betray Elidibus

In accordance with the law:

Elidibus's objective was to kill us it seems off if he weren't putting everything behind the attempt he had he only got an opening thanks to us being called so either he was holding back being counter productive to his objective of killing us or he is indeed that weak while possessing Zenos's body both are not favorable to him.

If the Emperor Varis is possessed by Solus that just adds to Elidibus's downgrade as an very calculating individual but we do know Varis will do whatever is needed to lessen garlean casualties even deploying black rose so it could be either way if he is possessed or not i'm inclined to say yes due to that face

Originally Posted by Crushnight

In accordance with the law:

Elidibus's objective was to kill us it seems off if he weren't putting everything behind the attempt he had he only got an opening thanks to us being called so either he was holding back being counter productive to his objective of killing us or he is indeed that weak while possessing Zenos's body both are not favorable to him.

On that point...

Eh, I don't quite read it that way. He was ready to go for round 2, having already weakened you considerably. Yes, the calling presented an opportunity but also a big risk in that it could be Hydaelyn, so he had to be swift but alas, you were whisked away before he could do much else. It's also pretty clear he was experimenting with the body's potential at that stage. So I'm not inclined to agree.

As for Solus, I think it all just lines up nicely with setting the stage for a betrayal, perhaps to satisfy his own megalomaniacal ambitions and unseat Elidibus from his role, or something even "better". Pretending to be Varis and using his own lines through his mouth makes for a nice bit of theatre.