Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.56

Originally Posted by RaphAlar

Watching threads and posts on the theory it's G'raha Tia, and I think the idea is brilliant...but the question of why doesn't the WoL know his voice bugged me.

There's one slightly meta explanation that he was never voiced in-game before (outside the fully-voiced Chinese version, which I believe is running an expansion or so behind the international client), and a second slightly meta explanation that his voice actor (going by Japnese here) has a really wide range. I had a joke with myself about it because of Ysayle, but if I had heard before 4.X that Yuma Uchida actually was being brought on to voice G'raha Tia, I would have immediately assumed he'd use the higher end of his range, because that would fit G'raha's bratty, immature, shounen manga protagonist image. (Hells, I would've sooner guessed he'd be sharing Taku Yashiro with Magnai.) The Enigmatic Figure we spoke to has none of G'raha's usual speech patterns, and might as well be a different character from our perspective.



Though in my head I took the "Who are you?" option to mean, "Stop pretending. I know who you are but I need you to say it." But obviously not everyone imagines the same emotional attachments for their characters.

Originally Posted by Theodric

Main Scenario Quests:

So, Lauront and I have been discussing the possibility that Varis is being possessed by Solus at specific points to help sow chaos within Garlemald. It was a theory we presented during the previous batch of MSQ's, though we're a little more confident in its potential now.

Zenos walking towards the slain Garlean soldier suggests to me that he's going to use the Resonance to possess a different body in order to try and reclaim his real form from Elidibus. I assume that there's a good chance that he succeeds, especially with him showing up in Dissidia NT as a playable character.

As for Elidibus, I was expecting a bit more from him. That Hien, Lyse and Yuguri are able to fend him off long enough for our character to arrive just felt far too convenient for my liking. Then, in addition, Estinien randomly shows up out of nowhere. Nobody beyond a few nameless soldiers are slain.

I suppose if anything bad does happen it'll be saved for early on in the 5.0 MSQ's - much like how 4.0 had the attack upon Rhalgr's Reach during the first batch of quests.

On that...

I don't think he'll reclaim the body until he is driven out by someone else for him, as it is clear that not even the WoL was able to stop Elidibus at this point, and that is with your Blessing, which he lacks. It remains a possibility that Elidibus will return the body to him if they come to a mutual understanding, given their shared aim of seeing the WoL dead, albeit for different reasons.

I also suspect Elidibus tried to kill the WoL when he was being called due to suspecting that this may be Hydaelyn, so better to cut it short, fast. Especially after what happened to Lahabrea in the Praetorium. Although the scenes were a bit lacklustre, as these duty fights tend to be, he was toying with Hien etc., as they were never his true quarry. But it was anti-climactic, not so much due to the fight itself, which was always going to be limited by what sole duty fights can add, but by how limited our interaction was with him. I was also sorely disappointed to see that G'raha (or at least the guy who looks like him) was pretty much the mysterious voice, which I had feared would turn out to be the case. I am hoping they leave some meaningful interaction with Zodiark for later on, because taking on the role of WoD without that will feel very incomplete. Estinien just acting as the deus ex machina felt forced - why not just have "G'raha" do a bit more than commune with you, and pull away your soul, only for it to be reunited with your corpse later on? It's not like the Source is close to an imbalance of darkness, anyway. Regardless, there may be more to "Gr'aha" than meets the eye, but we won't find out till 5.0 I imagine.

The true nature of the callings, in turn, raises questions as to how and why it's affected the other Scions as it has. Mayhap he did pull their souls away?

The most interesting part about that fight was how Elidibus was amalgamating some of the usual Overlord powers, as well as Zenos's, and he kept referring to the potential of the host. I wonder, then, if the Resonance enhanced both Zenos's soul and body in some manner that an Ascian Overlord would find conducive to their ends. We've not seen them absorb a host's powers like that before. Although it's possible that a host's memories do reside in their body to some extent, I had always though this was the domain of the soul. Maybe there is a degree of two-way interaction, whereby the body also retains some of the original soul's memories? He clearly put a lot of weight on Zenos's body's potential.

As for actual Zenos? He still calls you his enemy, his friend, but the guy is clearly more than a little nuts, so he wants you to grow stronger so he can presumably challenge you again.

On Solus, the reason I think possession is plausible is because he has a love for theatre and chaos. The production of the Black Rose has only begun now, so he's yet to go off to the First, if that's his plan, and Varis was quipping with lines Solus fed him earlier on. I think that's exactly the sort of irony Solus enjoys. During the tent scene, I had said that the second part was very uncharacteristic of Varis, who Solus even remarks doesn't do well to hide his true feelings. In that scene, there were also classic possession hints, like the flickering lights, with black moths drawn to them. That raises the question of how he could hide from another Overlord, but mayhap it's possible much like they can hide their true identity from you, in turn setting up the scene for him to go behind Elidibus's back in whatever it is he's planning, even setting the scene for a subsequent betrayal; who'd suspect a fellow Overlord, after all, even if some of them don't like each other? Solus has always spoken of Elidibus in positive terms, even though he finds him a bit boring. That could also serve later as an opening for Zenos reclaiming his body and perhaps working with Solus instead. Can't wait to see how it all plays out, when they have more room to elaborate on things, come 5.0.

Originally Posted by Rocl

Which makes me question where he got this information from? Is he still talking to his former master Elidibus?

Good question. Maybe there are more that recognised whats happening with us? Emet-Selch leaving the field right before we leave the world ... the more I think about, the more I believe he does know whats happening next.

Originally Posted by Lauront

On that...

as it is clear that not even the WoL was able to stop Elidibus at this point

Sure? For me it felt like only "the voice" stopped us from killing him.

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Oh.. just... oh boy.

MSQ:

Considering the strength of the endings for 2.56 and 3.56 I was expecting a lot from 4.57, it's true. And I was left sorely wanting.

Cid swoops in again; consistent enough that you could set your watch by him, I reckon. I know, I know, he always gets tied up in various sidestories post MSQ but it's so predictable for him now! Have him show up later in the expansion, I guess. Make him do some real work rather than gallivanting!

The fights with Zenos, I had mixed emotions about. It was nice to feel that much more powerful being the Warrior of Light versus Hien. A cute way to show the power disparity, I guess; the Warrior of Light is that much stronger than three great warriors. Something something Echo/Blessing of Light. It was also cute that Zenos used the same magicks as Nabriales (Triple/Spark), showing us again that Ascians do have some modicum of what's commonly "time magick."

Lyse being the one to break Zenos' helmet is also... really poetic, I think. If you trace all of Yda in 1.0, you find one cutscene (other than Seventh Umbral Era storyline) where you interact with Lyse. Being Futures Perfect, the final CGI CS of 1.0, etc. etc. we all know it, the Scions face off versus Gaius and he casually blocks all their blows except!! except! Yda gets a hit. It's minor, but was always something that stuck with me. When Lyse revealed herself and the timeline straightened, it was about the only thing I latched on to, so I like to imagine it's a nod to that. It probably isn't.

Elidibus recognizing we're being Called. Interesting, nice, okay, cool. He can feel our soul being called somewhere else. He's more gifted in the Echo (allegedly), so him being able to pinpoint that is good. He attempted to seize the opportunity to kill us, also good. We wake up in bed, okay. Estinien saved us... what? I'm sorry?? If Cid can come back regardless of your progress in Omega, then Estinien should be able to come back regardless of your progress in Dragoon, I get it. It's just... if we hadn't been getting "MEANWHILE AT THE LEGION OF DOOM" cutscenes this entire expansion, I'd understand. We don't get to see what we couldn't. But we do. All the time. Let us see Estinien being cool! Show me how he manages to fend off Zenos to save us! That's a BIG thing--we just saw the combined power of Lyse, Hien and Yugiri was necessary for Elidizenos to be slowed. Missed opportunity--Elidizenos toyed with Hien and his retinue waiting for the Bringer of Light to show. We show up, get incapacitated, and while moving in for the kill Elidizenos is stopped. He should've brought even more to bear against Estinien than the previous three. We're poorer for not having seen the battle tbh.

I supposed reconnecting with Aymeric and Edmont is necessary for the rebuilding of Ishgard. Eh, whatever, I like Ishgard.

The meeting with the Enigmatic Voice was ... well I don't know what I expected but I was still disappointed. I guess he pulled us into the Aetherial Sea? And if anyone is still denying it's G'raha after seeing that model then I want whatever fuels their denial directly injected into my veins. We didn't learn why we're needed on the First. We don't know what's changed. We don't know why G'raha is the dude who feels so strongly about this that's willing to risk the Scions' lives for it. Did Minfilia and Hydaelyn screw up THAT badly? Is there another force at work (probably, but it'd be neat to get a hint!)?

I guess we get another tacit confirmation that lower ranking members of the military don't see legatus without their helm/masks. Still don't know how Eula pulled it off for so long when she'd doubtless have to work with Gaius in Eorzea in the lead up to the Calamity.

Just, what, ugh? All this build up and it just deflates into nothing. As president of the Tataru hater club, I'd wish she'd been the real victim of the Red Banquet by this point. Why the hell is she crafting the Warrior of Light some weird Hot Topic Halloween Costume? What possible explanation can she have for making that in game? We, the player, know we're going to need to "take up the power of Darkness to save the world!" or whatever, but why is she making us a grim reaper knock off outfit? How do we decide to just leave Garlemald alone? Why aren't we pressing our advantage?

Confirmation that Ascians move independently and without informing the rest of their crew is good, I guess. It sort of had to be that way--or else how could Mitron and Igeyorhm bungle their shards so much. Solus scheming without Elidibus will be interesting if nothing else. It was also striking to see how Elidibus and Varis interacted and I felt it might've lent credence to the idea it wasn't Varis' true ideals on display at the meeting with the Eorzean Alliance. Err.. that he so deeply drank the Ascian kool-aid anyways.

Unsure what the stinger of crazy Varis face was meant to convey. Is it him slowly falling into madness or him giving into depravity and using the Black Rose? I can't actually bring myself to care considering all we know of Shadowbringers is that we're going to the First.

I've yet to suss out all the changed small-talk, but Arenvald mentions being worried you fell in the field of battle, J'moldva bemoans having to work with the Butcher, and V'mah is worried all about primals all the time. Nothing new in the Waking Sands... Matoya still has her same dialogue from earlier 4.5 in which she tells us not to worry about Shtola. Rammbroes mentions he's now looking for the beacon at the Scions' behest and Unukalhai has this:

...I am told that soon it will be your turn to travel across the rift.
And unlike the energies which ravaged my home, the star which beckons you is filled with blinding incandescence. Yet a flood of Light will invite destruction as surely as a maelstrom of Darkness.
I wonder, then, how a champion sworn to the Light could serve to redress this imbalance. What strange destiny calls you to this battle...?

Which makes me question where he got this information from? Is he still talking to his former master Elidibus?

Also I guess we're supposed to believe the real Zenos has figured out how to swap bodies with the Resonant and was going to take that Centurion's corpse as his next vessel and return to Garlemald. To what end? I guess to set himself up to meet the Bringer of Light again on the field of battle. Yet... it's unsatisfying. Zenos' original end in 4.0 felt like a much better closed loop--this one feels sort of ridiculous. I can't imagine going from being content to commit suicide to being okay with immortality. He has to imagine, eventually, he will continue to fight and lose against us and die for real whenever we get more white auracite, or succeed in killing us and never have the thrill of a real Hunt again. Like what's the endgame? To fight, to live, to embrace violence for its own sake? But he's already done that! He did that and he decided it was over! He came back against his will (I assume) and he's just accepting it!

Beast Tribe Quests:

I wasn't expecting anything amazing, and I got mild amusement. I'm tired of the same villain three times over though...he's just, ugh, boring. I actually liked most of the rest of the quest, because going in after the Namazu I knew it'd be frivolous fun. Miqo'te being so rare in Kugane that a random passerby wouldn't even know their name was weird to me.

Hildibrand:

Speaking of frivolous fun, I've been content to leave Hildibrand in his canon-defying bubble for some time, and getting the name of an influential Hannish business concern was enough to sate my thirst for knowledge. Hells, I even enjoyed the explanation of how Gilgamesh became Yojimbo! But... the ending... I know Hildibrand has to end up in every expansion and it's usually by flying off into the distance as is tradition since 1.2X even but... having Gilgamesh drag him into a portal "beyond the rift that lies between to wondrous worlds yet unseen" just ... Listen, I don't want to open this can of worms. Is Gilgamesh the same Gilgamesh in every iteration of Final Fantasy? Is the void the Void in every iteration? These are questions I don't want to think about ever, and I was really fine with leaving it ambiguous in XIV's Gilgamesh but I'm just BLEH. If he can just drag Hildibrand to the First willy-nilly, the Hildibubble canon is getting too expansive for me, okay?

Final thoughts on that...

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

10 letters be speaketh...

I didn't really get the impression we were weakened by our fight with Elidizenos, more that G'raha wouldn't stop trying to call us in the middle of the fight. It's hard enough to have a conversation with Raubahn with him kicking the door to our soul down, let alone sustain combat with a foe like Elidibus using Zenos' body.

I guess we're just going to have to disagree on that one. Your character was taken by surprise when he just revived himself and was ready to go for round 2. This is sort of why I don't really like trying to infer too much from fight mechanics, let alone in a solo instance, about character capabilities, and also because they're in the habit of under-tuning content which players go through for the MSQ. I can only hope that if we do encounter him again in a fight, they will be able to flesh it out a bit more. Same goes for Solus.

In any case, at this stage I am just glad they did not prematurely kill him - or Varis - off.

Originally Posted by Crushnight

For you see ...

Then that makes Elidibus dumb he knows we have permanently destroyed 2 ascians, he had to know we would figure out an ascian(not necessarily him) was possessing Zenos's body due to it having been buried so there was a chance(at least to his knowledge) that we could have the means to destroy him too, holding back even if you are overconfident in your abilities against someone who has been known to destroy your seemingly immortal kin is incredibly dumb and for a character like Elidibus that seems out of character especially when the objective is to kill.

I'm not saying he's holding back. I am saying we probably did not see the full set of his abilities at this stage. You're also conveniently ignoring that he just got right back up, perhaps with the very intention of startling you. Yet the fight was cut short by an opportunity to strike you down, but you were whisked away at that point, with him then leaving to deal with Varis's departure.