5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

**Selova** · 03-26-2019 06:31 AM

Black Mage is apparently getting quite a few new abilities. Whether that's just new spells or a overhaul to the job, not sure which. I'm banking on the latter.

**Sated** · 03-26-2019 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

I want combos to be consolidated into a single button the way it works now on PvP. I play on a console with a gamepad and its too annoying to have all those buttons on screen (I use macros to manage some but its still too much for the console UI to handle.)

There is zero reason to use combo abilities out of order anyways other than accidentally messing up your click.

Hotkeys are crowded enough with a keyboard I can't imagine playing with a gamepad.

I was surprised at how much better things felt in PvP; it's definitely more slim than PvE can handle but the design was much more elegant and it just felt better to play. There weren't abilities taking up space for the sake of taking up space. I'd enjoy jobs a lot more if they borrowed some of that design in PvE.

Another thing I'd love to see is the removal of role actions, maybe implement some as job-specific abilities where appropriate, but that whole section is bloat.

**MrKimper** · 03-26-2019 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

That answered none of the questions I posed. It is obvious, though, your fingers are much more nimble than mine.

My questions, again:
Is there ever any reason to execute Step 2 or 3 of a combo without Step 1?
Would it bother you if *I* had that option? In fact, does it bother anyone I can do that with F&C and WT?

No but that's part of the loop many combos split off into separate combos. Take Samurai for example, hakaze not only generates 5 kenki it can branch off into jinpu/shifu both that give a unique buff as well as kenki. So essentially without literally making the hotbars the exact same as they are for pvp(which would require dumbing down a lot of the weaving of the job by a lot) you'd have to hakaze before every combo anyway to efficiently generate kenki. I believe the same thing happens with DRG's heavy thrust combo.

You would need hakaze > jinpu > gekko + hakaze > shifu > kasha + hakaze > yukikaze on three separate buttons. I'm all for consolidating skills but I think a lot of it should just be bloated skills, like gap closers and such. Have them be the same skill but activate when you get within a certain range of an enemy.

You could argue that ninja and mch and MAYBE BLM would play the exact same but it would effect a lot of jobs.

**Ogulbuk** · 03-26-2019 06:38 AM

DRG has 2 5 step combos, Heavy Thrust is part of rotations but not a step on any combo. I would not expect that ability to be added to any consolidated combo.

**Rowde** · 03-26-2019 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The developers said that the consolidated skills was PvP only. They do not have plans to introduce it into PvE content.

Also, controllers have access to the Crossbar (16), Extended Cross (16), and the W-Cross (16) for hotbar space. If you’re using them, you shouldn’t have issues with space, nor need to use macros. Source: I played on PS3, PS4 for a year, and now on PC with a controller.

Hardly a valid argument at this point since the developers regularly go back on things that they've said they wouldn't do as of late.

**arctic** · 03-26-2019 06:45 AM

Things can't get any worse for MCH, right? ... RIGHT?!

**Selova** · 03-26-2019 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Rowde

Hardly a valid argument at this point since the developers regularly go back on things that they've said they wouldn't do as of late.

Just because they go back on things they said they wouldn't do doesn't mean they will do it for everything. There isn't any reason to consolidate abilities for PvE and the amount of people actually requesting this is incredibly small. I don't forsee then ever doing this because there is no reason to.

**HyoMinPark** · 03-26-2019 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

That answered none of the questions I posed. It is obvious, though, your fingers are much more nimble than mine.

That is unlikely. I just practice and play the game a lot, and I also utilize my options. The Extended Cross is extremely simple to use, and I would recommend you practice using it.

Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

My questions, again:
Is there ever any reason to execute Step 2 or 3 of a combo without Step 1?
Would it bother you if *I* had that option? In fact, does it bother anyone I can do that with F&C and WT?

No, but branching combos exist. How would you map branching combos, like the ones PLD, WAR, DRK, SAM, NIN, and MNK have? NIN, for example, doesn’t always do 1-2-3 — their combo finisher has 3 options: Shadow Fang (DoT), Aoelin Edge (strict damage), and Armor Crush (Huton Refresh). How do you recommend consolidating something like this? MNK also doesn’t always follow the same 1-2-3, because they have priority skills that they have to keep up (Dragon Kick for Blunt Resistance, Demolish for DoT, and Twin Snakes for self-buff). What about for them? MrKimper already brought up SAM.

This system would also not work on jobs that don’t have combos — SMN and SCH are two of the biggest offenders (along with PLD) in terms of button bloat, but SMN/SCH do not have combos. They work off priority systems. Likewise, there are plenty of jobs that do not have button bloat at all (BRD and WHM are two examples of this). So do we have consolidation for half the jobs, and then none for those who probably need it more than WAR or NIN or MNK (like SMN/SCH, because pet actions take up a lot of space)?

As for your question 2, it would bother me if it was forced on everyone, which is likely.

Originally Posted by Rowde

Hardly a valid argument at this point since the developers regularly go back on things that they've said they wouldn't do as of late.

Somehow, they still haven’t gone back on forbidding certain third-party tools, though. Just because they renege on some things doesn’t mean that they will renege on everything.

**Ilan** · 03-26-2019 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That is unlikely. I just practice and play the game a lot, and I also utilize my options. The Extended Cross is extremely simple to use, and I would recommend you practice using it.

No, but branching combos exist. How would you map branching combos, like the ones PLD, WAR, DRK, NIN, and MNK have? NIN, for example, doesn’t always do 1-2-3 — their combo finisher has 3 options: Shadow Fang (DoT), Aoelin Edge (strict damage), and Armor Crush (Huton Refresh). How do you recommend consolidating something like this? MNK also doesn’t always follow the same 1-2-3, because they have priority skills that they have to keep up (Dragon Kick for Blunt Resistance, Demolish for DoT, and Twin Snakes for self-buff). What about for them?

This system would also not work on jobs that don’t have combos — SMN and SCH are two of the biggest offenders (along with PLD) in terms of button bloat, but SMN/SCH do not have combos. They work off priority systems. Likewise, there are plenty of jobs that do not have button bloat at all (BRD and WHM are two examples of this). So do we have consolidation for half the jobs, and then none for those who probably need it more than WAR or NIN or MNK (like SMN/SCH, because pet actions take up a lot of space)?

As for your question 2, it would bother me if it was forced on everyone, which is likely.

And as a Ninja player i have to say: Keep that stuff away from me!

It wouldn't help most of the classes at all like Hyo's post already explains. The other problem is that if the combo system would be implemented it would be forced onto everyone just like it was forced onto everyone in pvp, which killed any fun in it for a lot of people.

**Legion88** · 03-26-2019 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

No, but branching combos exist. How would you map branching combos, like the ones PLD, WAR, DRK, NIN, and MNK have? NIN, for example, doesn’t always do 1-2-3 — their combo finisher has 3 options: Shadow Fang (DoT), Aoelin Edge (strict damage), and Armor Crush (Huton Refresh). How do you recommend consolidating something like this? MNK also doesn’t always follow the same 1-2-3, because they have priority skills that they have to keep up (Dragon Kick for Blunt Resistance, Demolish for DoT, and Twin Snakes for self-buff). What about for them?

Branching combos get one button per combo finisher and the escalation is not dependent on which button was pushed but it depends on which skill was used beforehand.
MNK would just get buttons escalating dependend of their forms, so 3 buttons for 9 skills and you can freely choose which skill of the corresponding form you want to use.

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