Dear SE, I am a Healer

[Miste]

Well, since you ignored the rest of my post on the likely reason why it happened I guess logical explanation won't really work. This group is too focused on being the one left out. I will leave you all to your unhappiness, and wish you the best.

Your reply was mostly to my boyfriend, he is his own person, if he wants to reply to what you said he'll do it himself O.o

I just thought that you were trying to be nice by saying it wasn't intentional so I figured I'd let you know that sadly it doesn't really help the situation :/

Relax, you don't need to get so upset about it, and I wasn't even mad at you at all or something for you to think you had to post such an irritated response and say I won't listen to logic, like....come on.

I find it weird that it seems the people who seem to be getting really upset isn't even the ones who are sad about this healer situation @.@

While I'm only assuming that's why they did it, I can agree that if we are looking at it as a whole the 4 melee at that juncture didn't make sense if we only look at it from the balancing numbers point of view. From what they've said I don't think they plan THAT far ahead, seems like they plan one expansion ahead based on the Viera/Hrothgar info we received, but yes based on healers waiting 6 years for a new job I'm sure they could have done something differently at some point that would have remedied that. I'm REALLY hoping/expecting that there's a major shift in not only healers but all jobs in 5.0 that'll make everything feel fresh, but I realize that won't 100% placate people who simply want what other people got.

Yeaah see that is where we got stuck on trying to figure out the why in all this :/

It seems like they don't look far ahead as you said, I just wish they would think on it more and maybe plan better to avoid these kinds of issues. I want the game to do well, I want to support it, but when they make it hard for me to do that it makes me sad.

And yeah, the idea that they could have done something to remedy this from happening is why I decided to post my feedback on it all and maybe why others followed suit. I really feel like they could have done something :/ like they are a large company and I know money matters of course, but if they had maybe put a bit more funding into it and maybe hired more people even to do 3 jobs with a larger team to work on it so it would work out, unlike HW, then...I wish they had done that or something. Or anything else to deal with this really, 6 years is just too long for any role to wait for a new job.

[silentwindfr]

i don't know if it was said, but do you really want they add a new healer when the healer have tons of trouble right now? one of the three healer is soo bland that almost no one want it in high level.
i will repeat what i have said countless time... add a jobs in a role just for add one is not a good thing... until now every jobs added did bring something new to the table (well exept mch *tease*)
we can argue that tank have balance issue, but outside the balance issue, the three tank have them own identity and way to be played. you will not play pld, war and drk the say way. then even if they are not balanced in terms of the one the most desired by the community they are still unique in some way.
but right now... take the healer... what make white mage unique? nothing! right now someone have said something extremely true: the white mage feel like a training jobs for the two other, what is kinda true. the white mage have nothing special that make it unique... it do heal (like the two other), it have some regen (what the ast have), it have dot (like the two other), it have fast healing ogc skill (like the two other too) and one main attack spell (like the two other) the only thing it have that the other don't have is the lilie... right outside the big number of heal.... the white mage have nothing unique that make it different of the other healer.
the scholar have the shield mechanic (what the ast can have too) and pet.. plus the aetherflow mechanic
the ast have the choice of his type of healing (either hot or shield) plus the card mechanic that can add really potent buff to the group.

then add another healer when one have soo much trouble of identity is kinda....weird, first i prefer they really work on the white mage for give it a true unique mechanic that will make it desirable by the community. because right now, add another healer when the white mage is needing a soo big rework is a bad move. and i think that why they haven't added another healer yet. with each expansion, they add new skill and time to time the new mechanic added don't work. we need to wait to see the change bring by the battle system maintenance plus the new skill of 70-80.

While I'm only assuming that's why they did it, I can agree that if we are looking at it as a whole the 4 melee at that juncture didn't make sense if we only look at it from the balancing numbers point of view. From what they've said I don't think they plan THAT far ahead, seems like they plan one expansion ahead based on the Viera/Hrothgar info we received, but yes based on healers waiting 6 years for a new job I'm sure they could have done something differently at some point that would have remedied that. I'm REALLY hoping/expecting that there's a major shift in not only healers but all jobs in 5.0 that'll make everything feel fresh, but I realize that won't 100% placate people who simply want what other people got.

that the point that make me itchy each melee have his identity and mechanic that make it play differently, the point to say, yes they have 4 melee and they haven't planned this i will answer this: sam was means to come with ishgard... but since the theme was more aligned with drk and they was afraid that 2 japanese jobs too fast was bad move.... it was pushed back, if you remember soken had even work on the sam music for heavensward. yes, they plan in advance, but depending of the situation they make changement. in this case (like i have said) i think they have decide to go against add another healer, simply because people will have riot if the dancer wasn't added...
and before some come debate about dancer can be healer i will say no... dancer is a buffer/debuffer was never means to be healer for the good reason, that how you heal people with dance. and we was lacking choice in the role of the bard that was mandatory because well, no one else was buffing the group like it. now we will have the choice between bard and dancer.

but i digress, right now the trouble is the community is asking for something that i can understand but at same time i feel is dangerous, add another healer when one is in such bad states is a bad move.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Your reply was mostly to my boyfriend, he is his own person, if he wants to reply to what you said he'll do it himself O.o

I just thought that you were trying to be nice by saying it wasn't intentional so I figured I'd let you know that sadly it doesn't really help the situation :/

Relax, you don't need to get so upset about it, and I wasn't even mad at you at all or something for you to think you had to post such an irritated response and say I won't listen to logic, like....come on.

I find it weird that it seems the people who seem to be getting really upset isn't even the ones who are sad about this healer situation @.@

Sorry for the long posts and edits, doing this on my phone and had more to say than I thought.

The situation is what it is because of player requests and miss communication. A lot of the feedback comes across as whining. Not saying all of your feedback is whining, the opening post is well laid out, but "they should plan better, and it doesn't matter if it was accidental we are still getting shafted" just seems... Whiny I guess. I hate to put it that way, I really do.

If you look at it from dev responses to player requests, up until this expansion announcement, everyone has pretty much gotten what they asked for except for Blu, which has mixed opinions, and drk, which people wanted as both scythe using and dps, but it makes more sense to me as a tank. It has the word knight in the name doesn't it?

Only now is there great outcry over the roles released. I think you can see why they would be somewhat surprised by this.


I'm not really upset in a general sense, as much as just frustrated with each side being so rigid in their viewpoints.

Dnc could have been a healer. It's not. SAM could have been a tank, but it didn't fit their vision. Preferably, Sam would have been tank, gunbreaker the ranged dps, and Dnc the healer, but it didn't pan out that way. My friends certainly would have been happier as they prefer me as tank, but the slant towards less tank and more dps has ruined the role for me. I simply switched to dps instead of pretending to be one.

I believe Yoshi-P understand that he needs to fix healers or the whole game will fall apart. They wanted to try balancing with 4.0 after the 3.0 fiasco but it didn't work out. Everyone says they had 2 expansions to fix healers, but the problem was really only introduced in 1, and then balancing in the 2nd. It didn't work, so now they are going to rework it it sounds like.

Personally, I think waiting for them to redo healers and make them actually functional is better than getting a new messy one, but I also don't main healer. I also think the drg and nin monopoly needs to change, though nin hasn't been as much lately, and Dnc may help balance that out.

[silentwindfr]

The situation is what it is because of player requests and miss communication. A lot of the feedback comes across as whining. Not saying all of your feedback is whining, the opening post is well laid out, but "they should plan better, and it doesn't matter if it was accidental we are still getting shafted" just seems... Whiny I guess. I hate to put it that way, I really do.

If you look at it from dev responses to player requests, up until this expansion announcement, everyone has pretty much gotten what they asked for except for Blu, which has mixed opinions, and drk, which people wanted as both scythe using and dps, but it makes more sense to me as a tank. It has the word knight in the name doesn't it?

Only now is there great outcry over the roles released. I think you can see why they would be somewhat surprised by this.

the worst is the outcry is simply, we want a healer new jobs, and when you ask why.... because we haven't get one for 4 years. we rarely see people say, because we want this sort of mechanic or this sort of new stuff added to the game.... no the reason is because we haven't get a new jobs for this role... when the new jobs is added because they bring something new to the table, not because they are tank, healer, melee dps, magical dps or even ranged dps

[Vaer]

you keep thinking of it like dps are basically the same, and appeal to the same type of player.



They arent, they dont.



dps is not a real archetype.


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...aracterClasses


you are lumping totally different fantasies together.


A dude who wants to be a magician doesnt give a rats butt about melee dps


DPS IS NOT A PLAYER ARCHETYPE



Healer actually happens to be an archetype.


also, they arent really like deciding everything based on getting everything to match perfectly, they also consider popularity, demand, balance, and variety. There are a lot of factors.

Why should I care about archetypes when the argument over subroles is based on how SE splits them in the game not some tvtropes article. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

If we go by the article you linked, Ninja should be in it's own category, and I guess we need more rogue classes. Where are they?

[Miste]

The situation is what it is because of player requests and miss communication. A lot of the feedback comes across as whining. Not saying all of your feedback is whining, the opening post is well laid out, but "they should plan better, and it doesn't matter if it was accidental we are still getting shafted" just seems... Whiny I guess. I hate to put it that way, I really do.

If you look at it from dev responses to player requests, up until this expansion announcement, everyone has pretty much gotten what they asked for except for Blu, which has mixed opinions, and drk, which people wanted as both scythe using and dps, but it makes more sense to me as a tank. It has the word knight in the name doesn't it?

Only now is there great outcry over the roles released. I think you can see why they would be somewhat surprised by this.

It's not whiny, it is just my honest opinion that the team maybe should look ahead farther when planning things to avoid things like this from happening. 6 years is just an unreasonable amount of time to ignore an entire section of the trinity, and sadly healers did get shafted and whether it was intentional or not is moot.

Also I was around for SB, and people were sad there was no new tank or healer at that time too, so it isn't new. I mean most people just accepted it since eh it was only one expansion so what if they added double DPS, there is always the next one coming, but then......here we are now.

Also, I don't think a logical person can be surprised that healers are upset they won't get a new job for possibly 6 years. Sorry, but that just seems really weird to be shocked by. Imagine if they didn't add any DPS roles for 6 years and only added healer and tank jobs, would you be surprised if people were starting to question why and started being upset about what was happening?

[Paladinleeds]

I think the sting of it is... they said in 4.0 they'd balance healers and tanks (they did say both)... they didn't exactly do that (DRK is still considered a trainwreck, though admittedly not as bad as WHM) on both counts. Tank still got a new job. It does feel like they're changing the narrative and moving the goalposts around. Plus, as far as DNC being healer, I wanted it because it'd be different as a Disciple of War healer (but maybe Chemist could take this role). I want a DoW healer and a DoM tank. Because I feel they would add a very different flavour to the roles, even if the basis of what they do is similar to other healers. Though ideally, each one playing somewhat unique (with some overlap) would be best.

[silentwindfr]

It's not whiny, it is just my honest opinion that the team maybe should look ahead farther when planning things to avoid things like this from happening. 6 years is just unreasonable to ignore an entire section of the trinity, and sadly healers did get shafted and whether it was intentional or not is moot.

Also I was around for SB, and people were sad there was no new tank or healer at that time too, so it isn't new. I mean most people just accepted it since eh it was only one expansion so what if they added double DPS, there is always the next one coming, but then......here we are now.

Also I don't think a logical person can be surprised that healers are upset they won't get a new job for possibly 6 years. Sorry, but that just seems really weird to be shocked by. Imagine if they didn't add any DPS roles for 6 years and only added healer and tank jobs, would you be surprised if people were starting to question why and start being upset about what is happening?

honestly, when i see new jobs, what i look first is do they are fun, what they bring to the table and try them, i don't really care about the role... i'm more a melee dps/tank person, caster and healer are really not my thing. however i did found the red mage interesting, the change of the bard welcome, even the black mage did feel fresh compared at before even if it's still not my thing...
i will try the two jobs (like i have done to every expansion soo far) don't means i will play them as main or stuff them... it will depend of if i found them interesting. i don't really care of the role, what i care is do i will have fun, do it unique enough for make me feel i have something new to do.

right now from all the jobs, the one i have the hardest to level up, is the white mage, mostly because it's too bland, boring and honestly sch and ast do the same and add something to the table.
and that maybe, i say maybe, the reason we have no new healer with this expansion... because the have trouble to create unique new mechanic for every healer already present. plus i feel we will have something more interesting when getting close of the empire, that can't use magic, remember. maybe get a magitek healer what will be fresh, maybe something about mixing drug for get buff and such. who know...

ps: all i say it's i prefer they take time for do something good than simply add a jobs hastly for add a jobs to a role.

[Belhi]

I don't get why people have to act so condescending and negative towards people they disagree with, which telling someone they are acting like a child literally is. People can and should speak their mind and state their reasons on why they agree or disagree with a particular viewpoint. The moment people start resorting to personal attacks, which calling someone childish or irrational is, your no longer discussing an issue but targeting a group to either discredit them or try and make them shut up.

Any constructive feedback discussion requires respect on all sides and if your going to call someone childish, your not being respectful.

On the actual topic at hand, while the recent Mr Happy interview hints that maybe we might be getting significant enough changes to see them finally make some inroads on the balance issues that have been a chronic problem for healers for most of FF14. I chronic problem, I might add, that Yoshi P openly stated existed. We will have to wait and see. If they can actually improve healing gameplay and balance in this game it will mollify a lot of my disappointment with going another cycle without any new healers.

One other thing I find curious. One of the main reasons people have been defending Dancer as a ranged DPS is that they qualify it as a unique sub category of dps while grouping healers and tanks together and historically the Devs seem to do this too so there is some justification. However, curiously, their way of dealing with tank balance seems to be to divide tanking jobs into OT and MT categories. Do you think then that tanks should be treated as two separate groups deserving of equal balance too and why or why not? Fundamentally if SE does do such a divide then the same logic saying that it was physical ranged dps's turn to balance out the jobs would suggest that both jobs next expansion should be tanks with one OT and one MT.

I am not saying that should happen but I think it is worth pointing out why some people see the logic for the justification people give for Dancer being a ranged dps as odd.

[Enla]

On the actual topic at hand, while the recent Mr Happy interview hints that maybe we might be getting significant enough changes to see them finally make some inroads on the balance issues that have been a chronic problem for healers for most of FF14. I chronic problem, I might add, that Yoshi P openly stated existed. We will have to wait and see. If they can actually improve healing gameplay and balance in this game it will mollify a lot of my disappointment with going another cycle without any new healers.

After having a day to cool on the issue, I honestly feel strangely accepting over the reworks that are coming. SE has proven themselves incapable of balancing the issues as they currently stand with new abilities and tweaks to existing spells. Which while part of that is simply the nature of having one class be so much a mixture of the other two it cannot function without being more or less powerful, it's a conundrum SE just has never been up to the task of fixing. Self inflicted though it very much is. A complete rework is likely the best chance we have at fixing the balance issues with this game - even though by it's very nature it means one class is likely going to be screwed and shoulder the brunt of the changes.

My only concern is again those comments about making WHM 'easier' when it's already the simplest class in the game and that SCH is powerful /because/ of it's faerie show a distinct lack of understanding in regards to why the healers haven't been balanced... But at the same time, if those misconceptions are true then the simple bandaid fixes we've been given up until now would have never worked. You cannot throw bandaids on a problem you fundamentally misunderstand and hope they'll fix the damage. It's just concerning to ponder what the healing classes might look like once they've been molded back into what SE perceives they should be.

As for people throwing around the childish moniker, I echo the sentiment that the only people I've seen causing issues in this thread are the ones trying to call others entitled for their opinions. Most people here have otherwise been quite civil even if we clearly don't all agree on the matter.