Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[reivaxe]

True, maybe the roe representation was just like a red herring.

Elezen are pretty! You just have to find the right glam. Something that compliments their proportions.

I wouldn't call it a red herring, the actual Queen from the past who was imbued with the blade's power has a body shape that is clearly not a reg Femroe. Given how things are it just makes more sense to have them place hold.
Basically, given that all the non-Lala females are based on Middie Females, you have to look at what makes Femroe different to the others. What makes them stand out different bodywise is not only being the buffest and tallest but also having wider shoulders and waist compared to the shoulder/ hip/ waist ratios of the others (and fat wrist cause ... reasons? IDK, to match the dudes?) and being given the tiggest BITS to counter-act that buff if people so please.

So if you take away the buffness, making them slim ... and make the shoulders and waist narrower so that the shoulders arnt wider than the hips and you make them shorter (all of which is seen in the art work and Queen model) you're gonna legit land on some body shape that looks more like that of a Viera or Highlander.

In any case please make female Hrothgar pretty as in not like Elezen/Roegadyn.

I know Femroe are not seen as conventionally attractive (Elezen's problems were before ARR. They're not ugly imo but they're stuck with some proportion and animation problems) but the devs actually do try to make PC females attractive/ cute. It's never really been a concern of mine that they wouldn't look "pretty" so the art didn't shock me at all.

[zeylos]

I'm still hoping FF17 (whenever it comes out) is an MMO in Ivalice, since they'd have to use a lot of the non-human races considering how outnumbered Humes are in that world.

I'm hoping that the differences between male and female Hrothgar is similar to that between male and female lions. Where you can tell at a glance easily which gender they are while still keeping their bestial feel. Using another game as an example, look at the difference in male and female faces of Charr from GW2. Both look bestial and you can instantly tell which gender they are.

As much as I agree with thei dea that female hrotgar should be just as besital, considering how much money itll cost them to make female hrotgar they'll probably make it cute/sexy in order for it to sell as much as possible, I just hope it isn't au ra 2.0, where males and females barely look like the same race, and female au ra feel more like miqote cosplaying lizards

[reivaxe]

As much as I agree with thei dea that female hrotgar should be just as besital, considering how much money itll cost them to make female hrotgar they'll probably make it cute/sexy in order for it to sell as much as possible, I just hope it isn't au ra 2.0, where males and females barely look like the same race, and female au ra feel more like miqote cosplaying lizards

I'm sure they will look bestial. But "bestial" just means "animal like". You can make something "animal like" and conventionally attractive/ cute, that's pretty much the foundation of Western Furry culture.

Also, it's less about pushing potions and more about appealing to new groups that are largely underserviced. If there's a largely underserviced female furry fandom that either does or doesn't play FF14 right now there's nothing to say they wouldn't prefer the females to look cute/ attractive.

[Qurho]

It's a difficult thing. I have a hard time getting into the presentation of the female races in this game, because they're all very restrained or cutesy. (Notable exception to femroe. I adore them, but I also don't really have any interest in playing a large human in a fantasy MMO.) Sometimes you just want an option that's tough, or an option that isn't all dolled up, you know? But cats are cute, and they play them up as a very tough beastly race, but the hrothgar men in game are also actually quite cute.

Ultimately, I guess my big line is that I'd hope they wouldn't end up as miqo'te 2.0 or au ra 2.0 in terms of design, where they have a super human face or very extreme dimorphism compared to the men. I really wanted to like the au ra ladies, but the restrained emotes and the strong dimorphism is disappointing. Like, everyone notices the height/build, but you can't even have the cool black sclera or blue tongues as the women...

[AnAverageAspie]

It's a difficult thing. I have a hard time getting into the presentation of the female races in this game, because they're all very restrained or cutesy.

You're not alone

...


I think when one states something as cute/sexy in regards to anthro. Its in regards to being more "human", less "animal like" to the point its no longer anthro but more identifiable to being a human with very VERY minor animal characteristics for the sake of not rocking the boat while reaching the widest audience. There is a science in how one identifies, relates and/or sympathizes towards an object/being with how many human characteristics it has, that is one of the building blocks of anthropomorphism. However, when you add too much ala. giving it the form of a human. You could potentially push its identity away from its original concept as an object/species to being near a exact homo sapien with a minor caveat. The face being the most significant identifier.

Furries. Not limited by east or west. Prefer animal faces/bodies with proportions and anatomy related to said species they're watching or expressing their fursona as. Similar to someone who builds a character, while human, is distant from their own physical identity. Furries just want a bigger extension of that player preference. Playing as an animal with human characteristics, with different varieties of tails, ears, torsos, hands, legs, feet and faces outsides of human anatomy, that have near limitless possibilities of identifying how they want. With one pattern being that their head is based on some if not exact to the represented species. One big argument with eastern media representation of anthropomorphic animals is how much physical aspects of a biological human do you put in a fursona, race or character to the point its no longer "animal like" in nature and behavior, since its physical appearance could be unmistakably human without the minor aspects of its animal species its trying to anthropomorphize? Enter, one of the many criticisms of ffxiv, Race diversity.

This half decade spanning argument is not if the races of Hyur(Midlander), Miqote, Elezen, Au Ra and Viera are exact humans("hyurs in disguise") to a T with minor caveats. It is about their caveats being so minor to distinguish them as anything but unique races besides height, iris and selective skin textures. When looking at other varieties of RPG's or even races in FF that are outside of FFXIV or are just unplayable races, you can find dozens or more of different races with widely different culture, personalities AND appearances. With the easiest way of world building different factions or races in your world, is to have humans alongside bestiel races. The Elder Scrolls biggest ones being Khajit and Argonians. Even the elves can be wildly different from humans without much customization. With FFXIV's argument of character creation not being enough to justify their basic appearance being harder to deviate from in CC.

Hrothgar was the collective devs answer to that critique. Adapted from the pre existing Ronso with the Male Roegadyns exclusive rig molded into an Anthropomorphic race unintentionally ripped out of Finland power metal albums sans feet. Giving a different yet familiar race to the game. While Hrothgar generally look alike with limited customization to differentiate from each other. Not only does that apply to other races, their default appearance is so stark from the rest that it stands alongside Highlanders, Roegadyns and Lalafels in terms of being the few to deliver much needed race diversity....if only.

Almost 2 years later.
We have a audience splitting set of two races with locked genders with no clear confirmation if they'll continue to support its fixes on hair, fur and hat implementation besides a vague "not 100%" on "headgears".
We have half apologies from the devs that made them genderlocked via fan expectations they walked around while essentially catfishing the player that the Shadowbringers Fan Fest Japan would answer and satisfy everyone's expectations, especially the answer if we get male Viera or not.
And we have a melting pot of players expecting them to rectify the genderlock with the opposite genders since the devs will not say a hard yes or no.

But. Ignoring the many stereotypes of rabbits that hinder the devs to just put bunny ears on a highlander/elezen hybrid, regardless if its "silly".
Hrothgar has delivered on its intention of serving an underappreciated player base whether the "right" one or not. A culture of role players that embrace the sexualized/objectified caricature of the heroic male physique identifying as one in a race of bestial anthropomorphic lions. Remove that unique head and what do they identify as other than maybe a diet-diet Galka? And this is why its disappointing if female Hrothgar do not retain that feature, because yes, its a feature the devs advertised intentionally but poorly alongside locked hairstyles and limited fur patters.

We can argue and even agree that the roe body with just a lion head and some bigger Miquote tails is still a weak design for race diversity. But removing them while still keeping the race in place is a much worst fate especially if the opposite gender is designed to just copy female Ronso because it is the least anthropomorphic representation of what the race deliveries in role playing even against Miquote. It is probably why I can't find any high quality pictures of them in screenshots or concept arts in FFX. Maybe it was intentional for showing Viera in FFXII female only since it can be harder to sell a race with both of its genders rather than one in better detail than the rest ala. Khimari.

Even the male Ronso have flatter snouts and faces in game, concept than with Hrothgar. You made these 4 unique faces with varried heads and you don't reuse them to your advantage? Just because if the faces of Female Hrothgar are just as flat as their Ronso counterpart, does not mean that they'll somehow get all the hats and haircuts working on them (YoshiP called Horthgar hairlock an intentional design for lore and junk) when Viera will still be the more visible alternative with that possability and they have those ears to deal with.
Even these arts of female Ronso/Mehgar is bare minimum at best compared to these Queens!.

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O hey I finally did a thing

Little Hrothgal doodle to liven up the thread ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Women can be as masculine if not more so than Abbey yet not look like She-Hulk or some Amazoness. Even anime like BNA still hold this disingenuous dimorphism because moe sells. Big budget films crash or slightly burn over the idea that "snout is too alien! Just plaster a flat face on it!". But now we might not get an opposite gender of a race that could follow the literal design philosophy of the male one. That they chose to genderlock for pin up bunny girls, pretending they're a "set" side by side.
It's conventionally stagnant and it makes me glad to see the community interact about it with their own ideas and spin on it.

I'm hoping that the differences between male and female Hrothgar is similar to that between male and female lions. Where you can tell at a glance easily which gender they are while still keeping their bestial feel. Using another game as an example, look at the difference in male and female faces of Charr from GW2. Both look bestial and you can instantly tell which gender they are.

Wholeheartedly agree. Size shouldn't be the default standard for fantasy race design especially in RPGs when many want a specific style/personality but equal in representation to both/many genders. If they're that desperate for specific vision split to different genders, then make sub clans under the race. While I don't like the charr, I commend that variety for more beastly/anthro races in mmos.

Let's face it. No one saw Cats. lol

Seems the WW1984 staff didn't either, yet they were filming in the same studio Cats was in, took it into account to make Cheetah look "less like Cats". Yet deliver a lesser but similar uncanny valley effect no matter how "practical" it looked. Just...give them an animal head and snout

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It's a difficult thing. I have a hard time getting into the presentation of the female races in this game, because they're all very restrained or cutesy. (Notable exception to femroe. I adore them, but I also don't really have any interest in playing a large human in a fantasy MMO.) Sometimes you just want an option that's tough, or an option that isn't all dolled up, you know? But cats are cute, and they play them up as a very tough beastly race, but the hrothgar men in game are also actually quite cute.

Ultimately, I guess my big line is that I'd hope they wouldn't end up as miqo'te 2.0 or au ra 2.0 in terms of design, where they have a super human face or very extreme dimorphism compared to the men. I really wanted to like the au ra ladies, but the restrained emotes and the strong dimorphism is disappointing. Like, everyone notices the height/build, but you can't even have the cool black sclera or blue tongues as the women...

The more this goes on, the more I dont care AS MUCH if there is the Gender Dimorphism. Like, I still would love it if the FemHroths were like Femroes in being tall strong warrior types. But more and more I dont care as much about that I just dont want them to be all Cute Kawaii soft faced, or even worse-human faced/Miqote 2.0. That just the ONE thing they can do to ruin the whole race by following this lazy Beauty and the Beast trope.

[reivaxe]

It's a difficult thing. I have a hard time getting into the presentation of the female races in this game, because they're all very restrained or cutesy. (Notable exception to femroe. I adore them, but I also don't really have any interest in playing a large human in a fantasy MMO.) Sometimes you just want an option that's tough, or an option that isn't all dolled up, you know? But cats are cute, and they play them up as a very tough beastly race, but the hrothgar men in game are also actually quite cute.

Ultimately, I guess my big line is that I'd hope they wouldn't end up as miqo'te 2.0 or au ra 2.0 in terms of design, where they have a super human face or very extreme dimorphism compared to the men. I really wanted to like the au ra ladies, but the restrained emotes and the strong dimorphism is disappointing. Like, everyone notices the height/build, but you can't even have the cool black sclera or blue tongues as the women...

I'd say there's 3 who aren't "restrained or cutesy" (Femroe, Elezen and Thighlander. Aka the 3 least played females ... Thighlanders are the 2nd least played females seemingly because they're not "the cute human option".)
Game design wise they make it hard to make something that isn't attractive/ cute. That's kinda the general vibe of the aesthetic this game has.

This is even more so seen when looking at females. The only races in the game where the men don't have noticeable greater range/ freedom to look "Old" or "Hard/ imposing" is in Lalas and Middies cause all their faces are young and fresh/ attractive ... and even the "oldest" female middie face looks easily 10ish years younger than the oldest male middie face. Just flip through the CC, the Draggos aren't really different from any race in that respect other than height difference.

Highlanders males, in lore, cut off their eyebrows to look more off-putting and to possibly give them and edge in battle by concealing what they're thinking. All the Highlander dude faces look hard or rugged. Thighlander's though? Nope, they didn't force them to be eyebrowless or to look like hard goons. They just look like cool young women.

Elezen, males get a lil baby boi face and a lumpy old man face. Females get ... 2 pretty faces and those 2 faces again with make up.

Miqote males get an older, harder man face and the girls just all look young.

Roe bros can look far more imposing and mature than the females (iirc one of the clan's males has a pink-eye tint going on) and the bodies don't match.

Draggo bois get the more beast looking features and also an older man face with more scales, all the females look young.

I'm sure if they ever make Male Viera they will have at least 1 hard/ older looking face even though the females all look like attractive young women.
This is very much the norm.

Now, if you're wondering about height I'd suspect from the art that they're shorter than femroe by a good bit, landing in the area of Thighlander. And that's pretty good considering the tallest Hrothgar males are 4ins shorter than tallest Femroe. So I wouldn't expect them to be super short. (it's hard to gauge things using Femroe cause they have the widest range of heights in the game but I'm more so going off of the decedent's height which seems to be mid range Femroe iirc)

[zeylos]

The more this goes on, the more I dont care AS MUCH if there is the Gender Dimorphism. Like, I still would love it if the FemHroths were like Femroes in being tall strong warrior types. But more and more I dont care as much about that I just dont want them to be all Cute Kawaii soft faced, or even worse-human faced/Miqote 2.0. That just the ONE thing they can do to ruin the whole race by following this lazy Beauty and the Beast trope.

I personally will be completely satisfied as long as fem hrots arent female miqote cosplaying hrotgar tbh

[Starshower]

I always felt like if they made female hrothgar, they would be less bestial than the males... their faces would be flatter and more pretty, more like a housecat, and of course, they wouldn't be slouched. Because of course, they absolutely wound't make a female be slouched. They'd have to be pretty.



I love male hrothgar, but the part I dislike the most is that they slouch... It messes up so many glamours!

[Lihtleita]

I always felt like if they made female hrothgar, they would be less bestial than the males... their faces would be flatter and more pretty, more like a housecat, and of course, they wouldn't be slouched. Because of course, they absolutely wound't make a female be slouched. They'd have to be pretty.



I love male hrothgar, but the part I dislike the most is that they slouch... It messes up so many glamours!

upright hrothguys when? weird how they made that choice when blizz was explicitly adding upright poses at the same time due to this complaint...