Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[nebby00]

Nah. Go back and read their posts; it very much wasn't them just going "grass is green". Otherwise, yes, that's what we're arguing: a beast-like race should actually look the part, and the males and females should look like the same species. Discourse isn't necessarily a bad thing, but most people who are posting in opposition are basically saying (to borrow from another poster): "I want to play a miqote but I don't want to play a miqote", which is just silly. If they look practically the same (maybe taller)... what's the point?

I think their pov is because the character creator is quite frankly outdated, and it's difficult for them to add new races and they typically use the same base bodies and modify them for new races. I really wish they did a complete overhaul with the whole system so that we could have a better character creator with better options. But most likely, if the dev team is going to take another body from another race and try to modify it to look a bit more muscular... I would say female highlander and female Roegadyn would be their best options if they don't make an entirely new body altogether. I personally wouldn't want a Miqo'te 2.0 either, since that'll just be boring and wouldn't fit a female Hrothgar at all since that's not what Hrothgar are supposed to be. As long as the body shape isn't something that looks hunched over and completely like a body builder then that would fit them how I imagine it would look like in my head at least.

[Senn]

Nah. Go back and read their posts; it very much wasn't them just going "grass is green". Otherwise, yes, that's what we're arguing: a beast-like race should actually look the part, and the males and females should look like the same species. Discourse isn't necessarily a bad thing, but most people who are posting in opposition are basically saying (to borrow from another poster): "I want to play a miqote but I don't want to play a miqote", which is just silly. If they look practically the same (maybe taller)... what's the point?

Sounds like they prefer female hrothgar to be slim, elegant, and beautiful. Am I missing anything?
The only issue is the constant insinuations being made about "ideologies" by some posters in my opinion. As if people can't have a preference without it being ideologically motivated.

[Mirhd]

EDIT: Adding this in here because I missed it:

I think their pov is because the character creator is quite frankly outdated, and it's difficult for them to add new races and they typically use the same base bodies and modify them for new races. I really wish they did a complete overhaul with the whole system so that we could have a better character creator with better options. But most likely, if the dev team is going to take another body from another race and try to modify it to look a bit more muscular... I would say female highlander and female Roegadyn would be their best options if they don't make an entirely new body altogether. I personally wouldn't want a Miqo'te 2.0 either, since that'll just be boring and wouldn't fit a female Hrothgar at all since that's not what Hrothgar are supposed to be. As long as the body shape isn't something that looks hunched over and completely like a body builder then that would fit them how I imagine it would look like in my head at least.

The character creator being kinda lackluster IS a perfectly valid complaint, but that isn't even what they were saying, either. If that's all it was, sure, I wouldn't have an issue, but it wasn't. If they do end up just using a base body again like with male Hrothgar, fem Roe would make the most sense, as they're closer in size/type to male Hrothgar than fem Highlander. I mean... an entirely new model would be better, but hey, can't have everything. My biggest complaint is them just being, as you said "Miqote 2.0". Honestly... they should have made a hunch toggle or something to begin with. I don't play male Hrothgar and likely never will, but I can see why some hate the hunch and others don't.

Sounds like they prefer female hrothgar to be slim, elegant, and beautiful. Am I missing anything?

Again, not really close to what they were saying, and they were being pretty condescending about it, too, while actively acting like a beast-like race that is based off lions having any sort of bulk to them is somehow offensive. They wanted them to just be tall (I assume they want them to be tall) Miqote. In other words... taller humans with cat ears. We already have humans with cat ears, no reason to have another (just taller) that doesn't even look anything like the males. See Roda's example, which is much more cohesive with the male Hrothgar.

Apologies for double post, but it's new-post-worthy :>

So to kind of follow up my realization that this image is basically a bald version of my miqo'te, I decided to do a little test to see how-


YEEEIIIUUGH!!~~


NOPE NUH-UH GROSS GROSS GROSS!

And then I decided to draw how the male and female hrothgar SHOULD compare.

I used the roe-female as a base, and gave her more curves from there.
I used the femroe hand-on-hip /cpose to match the hrothgar's pose. I didn't draw the hunch (because I'm bad at drawing hunches, foreshortening is hard ok?), but I would really like for the female hrothgar to have a few hunched /cposes to allow a bestial feel. (I would like to headcanon the Lost female hrothgars as queens who failed and lost their drones, or entirely rogue female hrothgars, so they would be a bit more feral and scary than the helion females, who could be more regal.)

I kind of want to draw the 4 face types and some "hair"styles now '3' (I really do like the idea that the females don't naturally grow hair/manes like the males do, but since hairstyles are a major way of character customization in games they DO have to have something to replace it, and I don't think there's anything else that our human brains could pay attention to that isn't at least an approximation of hair, so headdresses, and veils it is! Like I scratched onto the picture, the hairstyles that we earn can be considered wigs for fairness sake.)

See the difference? The first is basically what they're arguing for, while Roda's edit makes much more sense.

EDIT: To add on to your edit... they were the person who brought up ideologies to begin with, so they should expect some backlash on that front.

[Senn]

EDIT: To add on to your edit... they were the person who brought up ideologies to begin with, so they should expect some backlash on that front.

Yeah, I'm aware. A few posters have done that now, actually. Just because people want something different, they are accused of having an "agenda" of some sort. It's like they're trying to fight against "wokeness" when it wasn't even there to begin with. Everyone has their own preference. Just because some people want the females to be on the bigger and bulkier side doesn't mean they are a professional victim on twitter or that they share ideologies with people in that place. Come on now. And when they're called out for implying things like this, they backpedal or pretend that isn't what they were doing. Incredibly disingenuous.

[reivaxe]

Hrothgar were a success though, player engagement wise. They outdid Roes of both varieties. However, like many have pointed out male and female character and racial design are two very different beast. What works for males most of the time does not work for females and vice-versa.

Yup.
Looking at WoW, and I'd say that if Orc males are "The Rock" then Orc Females are Chris Evens with tits ... and the females make up only 20% of the Orc population. People who play males are ALWAYS more willing to play "big/ ugly/ buff" stuff than people who play females. Same way with how if you make a race pretty, both genders will be popular, but females will be more popular than males. You can even look at FF14, Male and Female Elezen have the same great sin of have long neck/ long arms/ tiny head yet over 10k more are willing to play Elezen Males.

Looking at how Hrothgar are doing, and they're decently well received for what they are (Roe with better proportions ... and ruined head options AND an ugly hunch). But they are clearly unpopular and without massive sexual dimorphism the female's population would be in so small that they might as well not be in the game. Tis why they seem to be taller Miqote/ updated Mithra.

Like, what even adds "diversity" to the game? The way some people here take it, you'd think that a movie full of white people with a single PoC in the background of 1 shot in 1 scene adds "diversity". If you barely see a thing, then it doesn't add jack.
Female Viera literally made it over 2X more likely for someone playing this game to see a tall female, that to me adds more visual diversity to the game than a hunched over Femroe with a cat head that less than 5k people WW would play. Femroe's numbers are so tiny that some DCs iirc have less than 10 active Femroe, that's the population that needs "more options"?
You're not gonna make Female Miqote less popular/ represented with that. People joke about the MV avalanche coming for Cat bois, but there's more than enough Middie males and Cat Bois to survive the number of MV converts that will come, and when they come they will add a new look and flair for most of the people who like playing males. They won't cannibalize some tiny portion of the player base.

[Mirhd]

Yeah, I'm aware. A few posters have done that now, actually. Just because people want something different, they are accused of having an "agenda" of some sort. It's like they're trying to fight against "wokeness" when it wasn't even there to begin with. Everyone has their own preference. Just because some people want the females to be on the bigger and bulkier side doesn't mean they are a professional victim on twitter or that they share ideologies with people in that place. Come on now. And when they're called out for implying things like this, they backpedal or pretend that isn't what they were doing. Incredibly disingenuous.

Pretty much... which is where my "misogyny" comment came from originally. I suppose it was a bit on the nose for this forum, but the poster's comments that were insinuating those who were arguing in favor of not having Miqote 2.0 were somehow part of the extremely vocal twitter minority irritated me. And, ya know... the blatant disgust for females with any sort of bulk. Preference is one thing; I prefer men with no beards, while some women like beards, which is fine. The posters' comments were another thing entirely. Case in point... Reivaxes' comment above that female Orcs are just "Chris Evans with tits." I'm not even going to touch everything that's wrong with that entire post because it's just not worth it.

[Senn]

Looking at how Hrothgar are doing, and they're decently well received for what they are (Roe with better proportions ... and ruined head options AND an ugly hunch). But they are clearly unpopular

And yet they were still added into the game.

Femroe's numbers are so tiny that some DCs iirc have less than 10 active Femroe, that's the population that needs "more options"?

No, people just want one beast option for females.

[Allegor]

Midlander, Highlander, Femroe, whatever, body type is a preference, but can we at least all be in agreement that they should have cat faces like the males and not human faces? we already have human [girls] with cat ears, we absolutely do not need another one, specially when said human with cat ears are by far the most popular race/gender combo. It'd be mindbogglingly redundant.

[Mirhd]

Midlander, Highlander, Femroe, whatever, body type is a preference, but can we at least all be in agreement that they should have cat faces like the males and not human faces? we already have human [girls] with cat ears, we absolutely do not need another one, specially when said human with cat ears are by far the most popular race/gender combo. It'd be mindbogglingly redundant.

I don't think you'll get most of the naysayers to agree with this, given how deadset they are on just "humans with cat ears+tail" they are. Why have variety when you can have the same thing cut and pasted, but slightly taller?

[Caurcas]

I don't think you'll get most of the naysayers to agree with this, given how deadset they are on just "humans with cat ears+tail" they are. Why have variety when you can have the same thing cut and pasted, but slightly taller?

I've seen the overwhelming majority of people agreeing to a feline head, as heads are what make races mostly unique. Most of the arguing has been over body type.