The Road to 5.0

[Anonymoose]

A new trademark went through for Square Enix recently (filed back in May), but today it's been setting a lot of discussion channels ablaze with speculation. We are presently 3 months (one patch cycle) from Fan Festival 2018 Part 1 of 3, and in the midst of The Rising. Seems a good a time as any to start this thread.

First things first: The Rising

O hero of rebirth traversing
Soar you the azure skies
Upon your breast a crimson crest
Shine Light down from on high
O hero of rebirth transcending
Weave you an azure lie
By your deeds doth crimson bleed
And Darkness quench the fire

The Hero of Rebirth, shining light from on high, passing through azure skies and bearing a crimson crest ... and as crimson dies, (upper-case) Darkness quenches the fire...

Let's go back to Tales from the Storm for a moment.

His lifelong battle having reached its true conclusion, he could finally begin anew. None can say whither his road will lead, whether the skies that greet him will be the striking blue of day, the blazing crimson of dusk, or the deepening black of twilight.

Well, that feels like more than coincidence.

So... the shining dawn of rebirth, the azure skies of day, the crimson fires of sunset... the shadowy depths of twilight? Perhaps that speculation about the patches corresponding to times of day was right on the money. (Who shot that one from the hip, anyway? That deserves a toast.)

Which brings us to today... this attention to a new trademark by Square Enix.

Does that mean our new expansion will be heading into (upper-case) Darkness - Ascian-infested Garlemald? Probably. Less certain... does that mean the new expansion will pit the Shadowhunters against the...

Or is that just an unrelated coincidence? I suppose we'll have to see if we get any fuel for this fire in Patch 4.4: Prelude in Violet. (Now, is that ... the violet of Ala Mhigo? The end begins in Ala Mhigo? Or does azure sky and crimson flame merge to make a violet exit into twilight...?)

[Iscah]

The puzzling bit of that prophecy to me is “weave you an azure lie”, when Heavensward was centred on revealing the truth behind a lie. Is it supposed to refer to past or future?

Is the first verse about where we are now, and the second verse what is yet to come?

Could it mean we are going to do something - presumably by accident - that undermines the Ala Mhigan revolution and leave it vulnerable to the Ascians/Garleans? What other way could we interpret “our deeds causing crimson to bleed”? (And that’s a question, not a rhetorical ‘no other interpretation’.)

Also I’m assuming “crimson” is working as a noun in that sentence.


Do we have the quote in other languages? I’m sure there’s some liberty in translating when they have to keep the rhyming pattern.

[Ramesses]

Ahhhh yes... I was beginning to wonder when you would make this thread Moose. Thank you.

Indeed, I read the news of the registered trademark "Shadowbringers" this afternoon and my mind immediately began associating a bevy of elements to the word. First off, there is the signature "violet" aura that the Ascians are known for; however, lets also keep a very secondary and (insignificant?) bit of information on a loose but nearby leash... lets keep in mind that violet (or purple) is the colour of Emperors.

This leads me to think that maybe...just maybe... patch 4.4 and 5.0 will also deeply explore the political underpinnings in Garlemald (a notion that has me very interested). Plus, I remember from the Stormblood opening cutscene, there is a brief moment when the camera pans over the new map of Hydaelyn... and we see Garlemald already enshrouded in dark thunderous clouds (with a violet hue, no less).

Which makes me agree with you that there is progression of Violet into Twilight.

Yep.

Plus, I really can't wait to see Shadowhunter gradually become a central figure in the coming storyline... including Lucia, Maxima and Nero. And this is also the patch (or expansion) where I hope to see Cid really face the reality of his weighty responsibility as the empire's foremost intellectual (arguably).

This is going to be excellently wicked.

[KageTokage]

They haven't really touched on it since 2.x, but the Ascians (It might've been Elidibus, specifically) mentioned how they intend for us serve as a key of some sort, but we weren't yet ready for that purpose and needed to be stronger. I'd assume 5.x is where they're finally going to make their move and have us unwittingly play into their hands.

The thing I'm curious about is just how bad the fallout from it is going to be, since that song implies it could practically invalidate the good we've accomplished thus far.

I feel like we're going to have face Zodiark at some point before the story can end, but with multiple shards still not having been assimilated back into the source, the Ascians would need a way to speed things up either by causing a calamity so bad that the energy of multiple shards is needed to recover from it or they have a plan to break Zodiark's seal without need of a complete rejoining...somehow.

[RicaRuin]

Not at home currently, but iirc the german version of the song was slightly different, the last line being something along the lines of 'im Schatten deiner Taten die Welt versiegt' which would be something like 'in the shadows of your deeds the world ceases'... Much more direct.

However, I am not sure on the wording. Anyone able to grab the german text? For further speculation, it might be interesting to compare the different translations...

[Theodric]

Well, I've been saying for years that there's likely much more to the Ascian and Zodiark story than is immediately apparent. At various points, the protagonists have played right into the hands of the Ascians. Sometimes unintentionally, other times intentionally. It's also worth noting that Lahabrea and Igeyorhm outright told the Warrior of Light back in the Aetherochemical Research Facility that their cause was aided by mortal conflict. A cause that the Warrior of Light has been actively aiding of late.

Much of 5.0 will no doubt be spent on trying to get rid of the Ascians that infest Garlemald, though I also suspect that the Warrior of Light will be forced to confront the consequences of his allies being so quick to use aggression rather than diplomacy to deal with a race that has been persecuted and hardened throughout history.

As I've said in the past, I'm hoping that Garlemald is handled in a similar manner to the Archadian Empire of FFXII. Thankfully we can take comfort in the fact that Garlemald boasts an immense number of fans, so it will very likely be handled in a wonderfully nuanced manner moving forward.

I suspect the first step of that will involve 4.4 giving in-depth insight into Garlemald's past - perhaps through the Echo. Given that 4.3 ended with us playing as Alphinaud I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we end up playing as a Garlean during a handful of flashbacks.

[Lauront]

Through a Reddit thread on this (https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ampf=undefined) and having seen all the different language versions, my conclusion is that it refers to two different set of individuals. One is the WOL, which the "positive" references allude to; the other must be the antagonists, or proxies for that term. So for ARR, I would surmise it's the WoD, even though he only becomes manifest in 2.0. The term "transcendant" is tricky, and I had thought it might mean the Resonance, but they are very clearly segregating the theme by iteration, and in a way Arbert did transcend the typical role of a WoL, to become the WoD. For HW, it is represented in Thordan and his knights. 3.0 is ambiguous, as it could refer to Zenos, but he did not defeat a rebellion ultimately, so it may be refer to the culmination of SB, and thus ultimately refer to Zenos anyway, or "Zenos" as Elidibus, or the Empire itself. The last almost certainly refers to the Ascians and their dark master.

The crimson crest thing had me wondering but someone pointed out this is likely an allusion to the below quest, which secured the aid of the Xaela in ultimately liberating Doma:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/I...on_They_Walked

Nevertheless, it's interesting that the final verses in German refer to the world being bled dry. Now if Eikonic summoning increases due to Ascian meddling, that could certainly have that effect, for which the Burn might be a precursor.

I also think there may be a suggestion that we will have to work with Elidibus, because of the Light/Darkness imbalance. If it tilts too much to one side, the world will end regardless. Elidibus even said what the Scions do does not matter, as it will ultimately benefit the Ascians. Either way, it seems to be implying further revolutions will fail and we will be going full on into the darkness/light theme. Some people take the "on high" to mean a trip to the moon, but I don't think the Zodiark arc is going to be resolved so soon, so I think they're reading too much into it; nonetheless, I could see it in 6.0. If there is such a trip, perhaps it'll be a distraction used by the Ascians to gain a foothold in Eorzea, forcing a retrenchment.

There is also whether we're sequencing these verses correctly, but it does seem that the ones describing "darkness" - at least the final verse - are meant to follow from what "light" does.

The other point of interest with the name "Ascian" is it means without a shadow quite literally. So the reference to "shadows of your deeds" is interesting.

It's also possible these verses have multiple meanings, and are presaging a backfiring of epic proportions of the WoL's actions in the expansion, which may be the conduit for working further with Elidibus, whether on our own terms, or not.

As with Theodric, I am hoping the Empire's plotline reaches an amicable conclusion, or at least allows for Garlemald to be salvaged and integrated in some manner with the alliance, given the formidable role it could play, whether under Varis or some other ruler.

[Lauront]

This leads me to think that maybe...just maybe... patch 4.4 and 5.0 will also deeply explore the political underpinnings in Garlemald (a notion that has me very interested). Plus, I remember from the Stormblood opening cutscene, there is a brief moment when the camera pans over the new map of Hydaelyn... and we see Garlemald already enshrouded in dark thunderous clouds (with a violet hue, no less).

Which makes me agree with you that there is progression of Violet into Twilight.

I think that part is a hint, yes. The storm is likely allegorical rather than literal. People believe Garlemald might be a hellscape tarnished by ceruleum but I consider it highly improbable. The storm is likelier to refer to Ascian interference. I think Anonymoose might be right when he thinks of the merging of crimson and violet into Twilight, but my view is this refers to the themes in HW and SB tying together.

And this is also the patch (or expansion) where I hope to see Cid really face the reality of his weighty responsibility as the empire's foremost intellectual (arguably).

I mean, the same could be said of Nero. Neither of them are accepted anymore by the Empire and Cid is quite rightly seen as a traitor. Plus, even if he were not, his father's actions did not sit well with the current reigning Emperor. I don't think he has any standing to speak of within the Empire. If we do side with some faction in the Empire, perhaps they will accept his counsel.

The line of thinking most likely to be of interest in the Empire is how to take Aulus's research and prune its thornier aspects, like the inducement of aether vampirism.

[Theodric]

I mean, the same could be said of Nero. Neither of them are accepted anymore by the Empire and Cid is quite rightly seen as a traitor. Plus, even if he were not, his father's actions did not sit well with the current reigning Emperor. I don't think he has any standing to speak of within the Empire. If we do side with some faction in the Empire, perhaps they will accept his counsel.

Unfortunately he is still regarded quite highly by many in Garlemald. It's why I put him in the same category as Lyse - both are very bland characters designed to move the plot along and end up overstaying their welcome whilst conveniently never having to face the consequences of their actions.

I'd love a scene long the lines of Cid having to confront a little Garlean girl who doesn't understand why her beloved father was killed or horribly injured as a result of Cid effectively selling secrets to the Eorzeans and Domans despite his supposed distaste for violence and weaponry. Though I won't hold my breath as the 'defector' trope is rarely done well and often serves as little more than an excuse to grant one faction access to knowledge or skills that they would not otherwise have themselves.

It's a shame, since previous Final Fantasy games handled the trope very smoothly. Reeve in FF7 never truly defected from Shinra. He simply exploited the protagonists as a means to an end and didn't want to see Midgar or Shinra destroyed as it would negatively impact the people he served and cared for. He pushed for reform instead.

Larsa, Drace and Gabranth turned against Vayne in FFXII though they did not turn against the Empire itself. They remained fiercely loyal to it. FFXIV needs more Garlean characters along those lines, instead of sniveling wretches like Cid.

[Zephanoa]

I mean, the same could be said of Nero. Neither of them are accepted anymore by the Empire and Cid is quite rightly seen as a traitor. Plus, even if he were not, his father's actions did not sit well with the current reigning Emperor. I don't think he has any standing to speak of within the Empire. If we do side with some faction in the Empire, perhaps they will accept his counsel.

I think there is going to be a lot of coming around to be done by several NPCs. I don't know that Nero would be on the front line of it. Nero is more well known for his pride, I think he may help but I don't see him playing a bigger role than what Biggs and Wedge are. I think Cid is going to have to come to terms with liberating his home land from rule and will be a point guy for being companion to the next expansion as he should have a better lay of the land than anyone. Either way it will be interesting if Cid `n crew end up having to meet up with Shadowhunter.


Speaking of Shadowhunter (I am not saying he is Gaius, but he is Gaius) his homeland isn't the same homeland he descended from. The XIVth was essentially rogue from the empire with the succession. I don't see him being an ally but a neutral party looking for one thing. Cold. Hard. Revenge. For the loss of home, conquest, and his way of life.


I would like to point out (by speculation) that violet is also an association of the color of the Void and Voidsent. We must not forget the deeds of the empire past. How allagan technology that was meant to be used to open a portal to the Void brought upon us the Calamity of Dalamud. In "The Rising" past we sought to look forward in expansions and I don't think that they would stray from tradition.

What is Unukalhai doing these days with his violet eyes and born of the world of void? Sent by Elidibus to preserve the balance no less. Better yet what did the empire "borrow" from the technologies and studies they found in Azys La? They sent Regula's body back at some point. I would assume from the Garlean point of view they wouldn't leave empty handed even if Regula in the end didn't want the Eikon control technology to end up in the empire....

We... still... do not know whose face Varis saw in Elidibus. We know that Varis called the gang of Ascian's "Shadowless charlatans." So it seems that Shadow is a prevailing theme among everything Garlean. Does the Empire truly dangle in the marionette of the Ascian threat or is assistance actually mutually brokered? Varis has no real love of family but a returning general back from going toe to toe with the WoL and lived to tell the tale is a beneficial influence to at least the Garlean army.



*queues the "Answers" theme song* After all we are celebrating right?


Just stuff that ran around in my head. :3