Since Lore Suddenly Matters

[Cilia]

So, some time later...

It's not lore that held them back, but a lack of resources and a desire to provide more diverse options. The developers wanted to put in Hrothgar but felt forced to implement Viera by fan demand; ultimately they compromised by including only one sex from both races. Previous Viera lore just supports males not being playable.

[Kalise]

So, some time later...

It's not lore that held them back, but a lack of resources and a desire to provide more diverse options. The developers wanted to put in Hrothgar but felt forced to implement Viera by fan demand; ultimately they compromised by including only one sex from both races. Previous Viera lore just supports males not being playable.

True.

Though this thread was mostly targeted at the people who were responding to the upset players with "OMG they're just being true to the lore bro!"

To which this is a tongue in cheek way of highlighting that XIV doesn't particularly care much about lore outside its actual story arcs.

If being fair, there's also the other side of things to consider too. Such as the fact that any other game that isn't FFXIV is inherently non-canon. Just like every other Final Fantasy game (Outside of sequels such as X-2 and XIII-2 and spin offs like Dirge of Cerberus) is in a completely different universe to one another.

So, even if in Tactics/XII they had a specific lore... It doesn't automatically apply to XIV (Or any other Final Fantasy game).

Just like how in every other Final Fantasy game, Stone, Water and Aero are all Black Magic. In XIV they're considered White Magic.

[Cilia]

True.

Though this thread was mostly targeted at the people who were responding to the upset players with "OMG they're just being true to the lore bro!"

To which this is a tongue in cheek way of highlighting that XIV doesn't particularly care much about lore outside its actual story arcs.

If being fair, there's also the other side of things to consider too. Such as the fact that any other game that isn't FFXIV is inherently non-canon. Just like every other Final Fantasy game (Outside of sequels such as X-2 and XIII-2 and spin offs like Dirge of Cerberus) is in a completely different universe to one another.

So, even if in Tactics/XII they had a specific lore... It doesn't automatically apply to XIV (Or any other Final Fantasy game).

Just like how in every other Final Fantasy game, Stone, Water and Aero are all Black Magic. In XIV they're considered White Magic.

I thought it was targeted at the developers as (yet another) complaint over them citing lore as to why male Viera weren't introduced; "lore" was, until we got clarification, what most people were going with or perhaps what the developers themselves cited.

... and while XIV doesn't have to follow the established lore of other settings / titles, the race was imported as a carbon copy of their previous incarnation in XII. I was hopeful they'd introduce the male Viera despite that (if only to avoid this nonsense), but considering that I wasn't terribly surprised they went in the direction they did. Perhaps the reason most people were going with "lore" was precisely because the Viera are identical to their XII incarnations? Food for thought.

[Kalise]

I thought it was targeted at the developers as (yet another) complaint over them citing lore as to why male Viera weren't introduced; "lore" was, until we got clarification, what most people were going with or perhaps what the developers themselves cited.

Nah, the Dev's didn't say anything about why no male Viera (Or female Hrothgar) until the clarification (Since the forums had exploded before they had even got back to the office after the Fan Fest)

So, amid the whole kerfuffle about this, people were merely speculating why the genderlocks had occurred. Some people stating "But muh loooore!", others saying that the original designer of Viera had control over their usage and said "No MALES! >:[", with a minor point being argued was lack of resources (The actual correct reason)

Perhaps the reason most people were going with "lore" was precisely because the Viera are identical to their XII incarnations? Food for thought.

True. Though, the fact remains that due to how the FF universes are unique, it's not ALWAYS going to be the case that things like lore will be copied 100% from things that are ported nearly 100% accurately from other games.

It can certainly be an argument, but it's not the end-all-be-all of the matter, like people where presuming it was (Made even more hilarious when Yoshida then later straight up said that lore wasn't the reason for the genderlock xD)

[kingskye]

Nah, the Dev's didn't say anything about why no male Viera (Or female Hrothgar) until the clarification (Since the forums had exploded before they had even got back to the office after the Fan Fest)

So, amid the whole kerfuffle about this, people were merely speculating why the genderlocks had occurred. Some people stating "But muh loooore!", others saying that the original designer of Viera had control over their usage and said "No MALES! >:[", with a minor point being argued was lack of resources (The actual correct reason)



True. Though, the fact remains that due to how the FF universes are unique, it's not ALWAYS going to be the case that things like lore will be copied 100% from things that are ported nearly 100% accurately from other games.

It can certainly be an argument, but it's not the end-all-be-all of the matter, like people where presuming it was (Made even more hilarious when Yoshida then later straight up said that lore wasn't the reason for the genderlock xD)

i honestly believe that he wasnt allowed to create bunny boys, the op kept repeating "this isnt matsuno's game wah wah" but viera and anything with ivalice is his and he has full authority of his ips, that being said...thats why i rather ronso male and female over viera female b/c i can be truthful about this reason why for the fake outrage and it sums up like this "i want to erp as a skimpy bunny boy, and ewww ronso they are soo ugly...doesnt fit my style" instead people are trying to fit their narrative by saying se promised no generlocking and if they did research....a 2013 article was mentioning female viera with a soon to be announced male counterpart....you had almost 10 years to whine about genderlocking...10 bloody years...the people who are mad just b/c of that article are just bloody crying for no reason and its a shame

[Kalise]

i honestly believe that he wasnt allowed to create bunny boys, the op kept repeating "this isnt matsuno's game wah wah" but viera and anything with ivalice is his and he has full authority of his ips

Though, people contacted Matsuno and he confirmed that he had no part in this decision.

instead people are trying to fit their narrative by saying se promised no generlocking and if they did research....a 2013 article was mentioning female viera with a soon to be announced male counterpart....you had almost 10 years to whine about genderlocking...10 bloody years...the people who are mad just b/c of that article are just bloody crying for no reason and its a shame

Actually, when they released male Miqo'te and female Roe they did mention they wouldn't do genderlocking again.

Also, that one specific mention in 2013 was discussing creating Viera and then opting for a male counterpart instead of male Viera...

Then what we got was their decision to make Hrothgar and then decide to nix female Hrothgar to add in female Viera instead...

Like, they were going to just add Hrothger male and female. Then, due to wanting to target 2 different audiences simultaneously (That's their confirmed reasoning) they decided to try and split the difference and add in a new "Beastly" race (Hrothgar) with one gender and female Viera as both had been requested a lot, and due to one gender of each race it would take about the same amount of resources to develop as one full race.


Personally, I don't much care about Viera/Hrothgar since I'm always going to stick to being Miqo'te and unless we get more retainers for free I won't be creating any more of them. However, I do kind of wish that they had doubled down on making one full race with both genders now and saved the other race to add later with both genders (Such as with 6.0 release). That way they not only avoid tantrums like happened here with genderlocking, but also extend the hype train across 2 expansions where they get to show off their brand new race.

[Cilia]

... [T]he fact remains that due to how the FF universes are unique, it's not ALWAYS going to be the case that things like lore will be copied 100% from things that are ported nearly 100% accurately from other games.

If they weren't literal carbon copies, from having the same culture to coming from the same area of the same geographic region... but there's absolutely nothing imaginative about XIV's Viera. Nothing. Besides being on Hydaelyn, they are literally the exact same Viera from XII. That their lore would be the same is... expected.

However, I do kind of wish that they had doubled down on making one full race with both genders now and saved the other race to add later with both genders (Such as with 6.0 release). That way they not only avoid tantrums like happened here with genderlocking, but also extend the hype train across 2 expansions where they get to show off their brand new race.

The reason they went the split route they did was because the work necessary to introduce a race doesn't stay the same - it's incrementally more taxing to introduce a new race as the game goes on due to having to make sure every piece of gear works properly with their model, which takes a lot of time (re: money) due to the high graphical quality of the game. That's why this is the last time they intend to introduce new races.

Sure, they could choose not to do [Hrothgar males / Viera females] now and just do a full [Viera / Hrothgar] suite... but if they did that, there's a far lesser chance of ever getting [Hrothgar / Viera]. It takes more resources to introduce a new race the further we go into the game, not the same amount it took for a previous one.

Considering that, overwhelming fan demand for the Viera, and their own desire to have some creative control over the game, I can't really fault the devs for taking the direction they did... even though I still don't agree with sex-exclusive races. Or the hissy fits people threw in response. (You can't control everything, but you can control how you react; the fact so many chose to throw temper tantrums over it is... disappointing.)

[kingskye]

Though, people contacted Matsuno and he confirmed that he had no part in this decision.



Actually, when they released male Miqo'te and female Roe they did mention they wouldn't do genderlocking again.

Also, that one specific mention in 2013 was discussing creating Viera and then opting for a male counterpart instead of male Viera...

Then what we got was their decision to make Hrothgar and then decide to nix female Hrothgar to add in female Viera instead...

Like, they were going to just add Hrothger male and female. Then, due to wanting to target 2 different audiences simultaneously (That's their confirmed reasoning) they decided to try and split the difference and add in a new "Beastly" race (Hrothgar) with one gender and female Viera as both had been requested a lot, and due to one gender of each race it would take about the same amount of resources to develop as one full race.


Personally, I don't much care about Viera/Hrothgar since I'm always going to stick to being Miqo'te and unless we get more retainers for free I won't be creating any more of them. However, I do kind of wish that they had doubled down on making one full race with both genders now and saved the other race to add later with both genders (Such as with 6.0 release). That way they not only avoid tantrums like happened here with genderlocking, but also extend the hype train across 2 expansions where they get to show off their brand new race.

gotta find me that actual quote verbatim b/c a 2013 article stated he wanted female viera and a male counterpart, that was all the way back in 2013...if you can find that article cool but i need an official statment from square enix and naoki yoshida